Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility be?

[Knight Templar]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

I do not understand why people like CE and others here make the claim that being against allowing a woman to have an abortion means she is being treated like an "animal" or a "brood mare".

If you have a moral objection to certain actions, then trying to prevent people from having those actions performed in no way means you consider them to be "lesser people".

Claiming that men who are opposed to women having an abortion view them as "animals" or "incubators" is a simple, and obvious attempt to demonize and dehumanize abortion opponents.

 

[Misfit Toy]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

I do not understand why people like CE and others here make the claim that being against allowing a woman to have an abortion means she is being treated like an "animal" or a "brood mare".

If you have a moral objection to certain actions, then trying to prevent people from having those actions performed in no way means you consider them to be "lesser people".

Claiming that men who are opposed to women having an abortion view them as "animals" or "incubators" is a simple, and obvious attempt to demonize and dehumanize abortion opponents.

But you've already said that there should be no abortion except when the woman's health is at risk (a stupid statment, because pregnancy itself puts the woman's health at risk). You would make no exception for rape - therefore the victim of a man who is determined to "continue his genetic legacy" would, in your view, be forced to carry that "legacy" to term.

 

[Knight Templar]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

I do not understand why people like CE and others here make the claim that being against allowing a woman to have an abortion means she is being treated like an "animal" or a "brood mare".

If you have a moral objection to certain actions, then trying to prevent people from having those actions performed in no way means you consider them to be "lesser people".

Claiming that men who are opposed to women having an abortion view them as "animals" or "incubators" is a simple, and obvious attempt to demonize and dehumanize abortion opponents.

But you've already said that there should be no abortion except when the woman's health is at risk (a stupid statment, because pregnancy itself puts the woman's health at risk). You would make no exception for rape - therefore the victim of a man who is determined to "continue his genetic legacy" would, in your view, be forced to carry that "legacy" to term.

My objections to abortion have nothing to do with things like "genetics" or "genetic legacy" or "genetic heritage".

I made the argument about genetic heritage to show that from the perspective of peoples "rights" by allowing a woman complete control over her pregnancy you are in fact denying something to a man which he may value deeply (a chance to pass on his genes to the next generation) and thus you were establishing the womans rights to be superior to that of a man.

My basic objections to abortion are that it destroys innocent human life.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

^ In this case, the woman's rights ARE superior to those of the man, simply because much more is at stake for her.

 

[Miss Chicken]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

I am currently reading Get Me Out: A History of Childbirth From the Garden of Eden to the Sperm Bank.

Early in book it says

They also thought that men provided the life source that created the human. Women were mere baby-making vessels. Or as a sixteenth-century expert put it, the purpose of the vagina was to be an "antechamber to lodge a Man's Yard". A penis was called a yard, as in a 26-inch stick. Definitely wishful thinking. Women were either hollow or had a few baby-making parts within.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

KT, where you made your mistake was focusing on mere genetics--on an "object" (DNA) to possess, rather than the fact that the child in the womb is a person deserving of life, and not possession but a person with whom you hope to have a parent-child relationship. What a man should value is the opportunity to see his son or daughter grow, to love, nurture, and teach him or her, and over time, even to learn from his child. Ignoring all of that in favor of a mere genetic payload was a serious tactical error on your part.

 

[{ Emilia }]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

What you call the "child in the womb" is not a person and also not a child. We're talking about fetuses/embryos, non-sentient, non-thinking, little to no brain activity. How can that be a "person"?

You keep bringing this up but it's still not true.

Nerys Ghemor, where you made your mistake was focusing on ideology instead of facts.

 

[Taylirious]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

Be the best father you can be to that child. But be a man about it and do what you can to support the mother and the child.

 

[Trekker4747]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

Don't forget. He's sick of hearing about peoples' rights.

Just shut up and let guys like him control you the way God intended! What's so complicated?

There? Isn't this simpler? Is it not your natural state?

 

[Kestra]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

you are in fact denying something to a man which he may value deeply

Too bad.

 

[sonak]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

you know, they have frozen waffles, which are really convenient. But there's no equivalent for pancakes. I wish there were.

 

[iguana_tonante]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

What you call the "child in the womb" is not a person and also not a child. We're talking about fetuses/embryos, non-sentient, non-thinking, little to no brain activity. How can that be a "person"?

Brain and brain what is brain? Remember, brain-dead individuals are persons too, with full rights and privileges. One wonders how many of them vote in elections, too.

 

[sonak]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

What you call the "child in the womb" is not a person and also not a child. We're talking about fetuses/embryos, non-sentient, non-thinking, little to no brain activity. How can that be a "person"?

Brain and brain what is brain? Remember, brain-dead individuals are persons too, with full rights and privileges. One wonders how many of them vote in elections, too.

In the U.S. they're a pretty substantial portion of the electorate.

 

[Misfit Toy]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

What you call the "child in the womb" is not a person and also not a child. We're talking about fetuses/embryos, non-sentient, non-thinking, little to no brain activity. How can that be a "person"?

Brain and brain what is brain? Remember, brain-dead individuals are persons too, with full rights and privileges. One wonders how many of them vote in elections, too.

In the U.S. they're a pretty substantial portion of the electorate.

That's only fair. They're also a pretty substantial portion of our politicians.

 

[{ Emilia }]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

Brain and brain what is brain? Remember, brain-dead individuals are persons too, with full rights and privileges. One wonders how many of them vote in elections, too.

In the U.S. they're a pretty substantial portion of the electorate.

That's only fair. They're also a pretty substantial portion of our politicians.

 

[cooleddie74]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

Hell, brain dead? Wouldn't that imply they had a mass of gray matter inside their craniums to begin with?

Some aren't even that gifted:

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjMnFnrS2t4[/yt]

 

[Paulcpick]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

What you call the "child in the womb" is not a person and also not a child. We're talking about fetuses/embryos, non-sentient, non-thinking, little to no brain activity. How can that be a "person"?

You keep bringing this up but it's still not true.

Nerys Ghemor, where you made your mistake was focusing on ideology instead of facts.

That sounds more like an attempt at justification to me.
Simple answer for you, go look in the mirror.

That's how an unborn child is considered a person.

 

[Deckerd]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

What you call the "child in the womb" is not a person and also not a child. We're talking about fetuses/embryos, non-sentient, non-thinking, little to no brain activity. How can that be a "person"?

You keep bringing this up but it's still not true.

Nerys Ghemor, where you made your mistake was focusing on ideology instead of facts.

That sounds more like an attempt at justification to me.
Simple answer for you, go look in the mirror.

That's how an unborn child is considered a person.

That doesn't even make sense.

 

[Paulcpick]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

That doesn't even make sense.

You were an unborn child once too.
So was everyone.

For a life to be destroyed before it even has a chance to live..... that just doesn't sit well with me.

 

[Deckerd]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

I'm fairly sure I didn't look like this when I was a collection of cells a few weeks old.

For a life to be destroyed before it even has a chance to live..... that just doesn't sit well with me.

To quote Kestra; tough. You're confusing potential with a fait accompli. Something a few weeks old in a uterus is not life until it has had an awful lot of life put into it by the owner of the uterus. That's the nub of this whole thing. Until men can make that kind of huge physical investment followed by 18 years of huge monetary, emotional and intellectual investment then there is no equality. Remember that 9 times out of 10 when couples split up the children go with the mother. This isn't an accident. The law recognises that children, all things being equal, need their mother more than they need their father.