I'm sure he can still "engage" too
Uhura and Scotty, why did people hate the Idea so much?
- Thread starter Tribble puncher
- Start date
Generally accepted? I didn't see even a hint of that in the movies. In Saavik's onscreen appearances, there was never (AFAIK) any suggestion that she was anything other than Spock's junior officer, student, and friend.
I certainly don't see anything "gross" in their getting married. They knew each other and worked together for years, so it could be seen as "logical" that they'd realize that they were compatible and take it to the next level.
IIRC, it's been touched on somewhere in the novels.
One thing oft criticised is the lame attempts at humour in TFF, so imagine what it would be like had Scotty found out about Uhura's chosen method of distracting Sybok's forces. Especially if Scotty carried on the way he had over Lieutenant Carolyn Palamas, when Apollo dolled her up in a pink frock and whisked her off to the nearby woods in Who Mourns for Adonais? Then to have Scotty give himself a heart-attack over the whole affair and finding himself in Sickbay for it, rather than having clunked his head against some obvious piece of overhang ...
"Are ye daft, woman? You canna demean yourself this way! Oh! Me bonnie lass ...!!!" as he starts gripping his chest and falls to the floor with a comical look on his face ...
"Are ye daft, woman? You canna demean yourself this way! Oh! Me bonnie lass ...!!!" as he starts gripping his chest and falls to the floor with a comical look on his face ...
I don't get any chemistry between them.
I'm not of the mindset that every male and every female in an ensemble cast *have* to hook up with someone.
I'm not of the mindset that every male and every female in an ensemble cast *have* to hook up with someone.
One thing that a lot of people don't realize, or tend to forget, is that even when you put together every series and every movie and every novel and all of it....we are only getting a very fragmentary picture of the lives of these characters. We are not living their lives or even living with them on a day-to-day and moment-to-moment basis. If we say that something seems like it's "out of the blue" it's really because we are only getting that fragment that is limited by the necessities of a two-hour film, etc. If someone wants to contend that within all of the 'fragments' that have been depicted there should be precedent or an underlying current along the way or something....I say that things happen 'out of the blue' all the time, because people are complex. Someone can work alongside someone else for decades and all of a sudden realize one day that they have an emotional connection that they are motivated to express.
Age should not matter....whether it is two people willingly indulging in their lusts for each other or whether there is a deeper emotional connection.
If appearance is so important, people should still not apply the aging process here to the future in the Trek universe. Actors and actresses here are limited by this time. The future anywhere might include a much more indefinite span for the preservation of the appearance of youth.
Labeling Doohan and Nichols "two old fatties" implies that they are so corrupted as to be unworthy of living.
Is a Logan's Run-style society really that appealing?
Age should not matter....whether it is two people willingly indulging in their lusts for each other or whether there is a deeper emotional connection.
If appearance is so important, people should still not apply the aging process here to the future in the Trek universe. Actors and actresses here are limited by this time. The future anywhere might include a much more indefinite span for the preservation of the appearance of youth.
Labeling Doohan and Nichols "two old fatties" implies that they are so corrupted as to be unworthy of living.
Is a Logan's Run-style society really that appealing?
No such implications were made, sir! I put it plainly ... and to the point. In fact, Mister Scott, himself, has supported my statement (in an indirect manner, mind) when having stated the following, in TNG: "...there comes a time when a Man finds that he can't fall in love again."
"Two old fatties" is quite derogatory and dismissive. Age, weight, and other basic things do not define a person's character or make the person more or less 'worthy' as an individual being.
Everyone loves Uhura/Nichols & Scotty/Doohan ... most assuredly!
Fortunately, however, their romantic involvement -- as seen in TFF -- was minimal, at best. Two scenes, I believe. But there was no hype there, and there was really no point in even having it in the movie. It did nothing to tell the story and the characters, themselves, were certainly not advanced by it. It does seem to have been chaste, as indicated in the sickbay sequence, when Uhura informs Scotty that, "Sybok's put us in touch with feelings we've always been afraid to express" ... making Scotty appear visibly uncomfortable. So, I'm confident that their "love" was simply a deeper friendship expressed in an earnest and meaningful manner. I'm not saying what I "wanted" as I don't give a toss about the romantic interests of the 2nd bananas -- especially at this stage. Just stating what exists in the final thing ... in the film, itself. But its pointless inclusion in this film adds nothing to the ... to the texture, or flavour of the piece. It simply distracts with meaninglessness designed and developed to give Shatner an opportunity to "shine" in his folding canvas chair with beret, ascot, jodhpurs, and a megaphone, shouting quite emphatically, "... and ... ACTION!!! CUT!!! PRINT!!!"
Fortunately, however, their romantic involvement -- as seen in TFF -- was minimal, at best. Two scenes, I believe. But there was no hype there, and there was really no point in even having it in the movie. It did nothing to tell the story and the characters, themselves, were certainly not advanced by it. It does seem to have been chaste, as indicated in the sickbay sequence, when Uhura informs Scotty that, "Sybok's put us in touch with feelings we've always been afraid to express" ... making Scotty appear visibly uncomfortable. So, I'm confident that their "love" was simply a deeper friendship expressed in an earnest and meaningful manner. I'm not saying what I "wanted" as I don't give a toss about the romantic interests of the 2nd bananas -- especially at this stage. Just stating what exists in the final thing ... in the film, itself. But its pointless inclusion in this film adds nothing to the ... to the texture, or flavour of the piece. It simply distracts with meaninglessness designed and developed to give Shatner an opportunity to "shine" in his folding canvas chair with beret, ascot, jodhpurs, and a megaphone, shouting quite emphatically, "... and ... ACTION!!! CUT!!! PRINT!!!"
As bad as Scottyhura was, if anyone else wonder if just maybe Tryla Scott from "Conspiracy" might just be their offspring?
What 2takesfrakes said. It is actually a lovely notion, chemistry can change over time, not to mention demisexuality*, but it's comes out of nowhere. There's no buildup, or depth. Especially as TFF takes place immediately after TVH. Nor did it feel germane if Scotty was quick to look uncomfortable - regardless if she were under Sybok's influence or not, he might have a bit more ambivalence and not outright discomfort. There are a few possibilities, but regardless it all boils down to inconsistent writing, for which the writers involved were too busy with other aspects** to really want to do anything with it.
* sexual attraction generated by an existing emotional bond, not named for anyone named Demi though if one is bonded to someone named Demi and, ding, one generates attraction, that's also possible.
** It may have taken weeks to perfect the scene where Scotty boasts about knowing the new ship's design before promptly bumping his head smack into that convenient pipe above the corridor, just who designed the ship and put in pipes below a reasonable height to begin with, sigh...
* sexual attraction generated by an existing emotional bond, not named for anyone named Demi though if one is bonded to someone named Demi and, ding, one generates attraction, that's also possible.
** It may have taken weeks to perfect the scene where Scotty boasts about knowing the new ship's design before promptly bumping his head smack into that convenient pipe above the corridor, just who designed the ship and put in pipes below a reasonable height to begin with, sigh...
Scotty reacting (not well) to Uhura's fan dance would've had their supposed "romance" in this movie make much more sense AND it could've contributed significantly to the comedic stylings of this ... uh ... this "film." But all ANY of the characters are allowed to care about is either idolising Captain Kirk and/or betraying him for Sybok's mind-healing prowess. It's no coincidence that Shatner selected a Vulcan as the bad guy for his movie, considering the (undeserved) success that TVH enjoyed - helmed, of course, by none other than Mister Spock, himself. So, he got his little "F.U." in, there AND ... it cost him dear. I have to say it, also: I hate Shatner's "get it in the can, quick and dirty" directing style. There's absolutely no nuance to this film, no subtlety, no style ... what it is, though, is self-indulgent. And the rest of the characters suffered, because of that. And the underwhelming performances by both Jimmy & Nichelle show just how confident they were in the material ... and the director responsible for it.
Why would there be an "F U" to the guy/movie/reason that Shatner even HAD his chance to direct? Sounds like you are projecting a bit here.... at the very least... assuming. I don't see anything rushed or "get it in the can, quick and dirty" in this movie. I see a movie slashed more and more by budget cuts as we progress, with some absolutely gorgeous nature shots at the beginning of the film. There was definitely a certain depth and theme to the Spock/Kirk/McCoy story, and the bond of their friendship shines through the movie, especially coming on the heels of Kirk's ressurection - Kirk knows that he will never *die alone* .... that Spock is right there and has his back....and the pain and struggles and loss Kirk has suffered the last few movies is also what drives him and makes him who he is. So much is overlooked in this movie. I've seen an edit that makes it (IMO) a masterpiece.
Great grand daughter?
^ I'd love to know the story behind that.
I believe that was actually to do with interviews given during the wrap party for The Undiscovered Country ...
This is the exact moment when you realise all the "TOS cast hate Shatner" stories you grew up reading were just pre-internet versions of the fake Shatner/Takei rivalry.
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Well ... for one thing, this movie's decades old, so it's hard for me to get "passionate" about my perspective on this matter. But yes, the movie's quite "flat" in terms of the overly broad performances, all around. David Warner was an excellent casting choice, but is reduced to playing some low-lifer unworthy of Mr. Warner's caliber. Fortunately, Nick Meyer rectified this in TUC. As for Shatner's "F.U." to Nimoy, yes, that's how I figure it. But it does seem likely that Bill would've been extremely envious of Lenny's having had first crack at the director's chair in the franchise AND that he got it twice -- to great acclaim and some success. And maybe Sybok wasn't much of an "F.U.," but TFF wasn't much of a movie ...
The takeover of Paradise City & Kirk's attempt to recapture it, the "cantina" scene, Sybok's hijacking of the ship and everything to do with the brig were all very uninvolving scenes that failed to generate any kind of excitement, whatsoever. Kirk's hugging a couple stuntmen enroute to the cantina was particularly risible. All of this is Shatner's problem as a director. He simply has no sense of creating tension, or establishing a mood. He's got nothing to "say," he's just trying to get the day over with. It may well have been that The Shat was distracted, because of acting in it, but what am I supposed to do about that ... weep in a bucket? The director's supposed to be organised and know what he wants, going into the project, and the only thing The Shat's interested in is the status of it. It's also telling how he let his underlings screw up on the FX side of things. He should've been more of a supervisor in that respect and he just let shit go until the project suffered for it. Look, I like Shatner as James. T. Kirk; his hammyness is very entertaining and when he felt like it, he could be quite moving, at times. But it's not surprising to me that he never directed a big, event movie again.
Here's Nichelle again....she does make her rounds. 
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