TWOK cut scenes excerpts...

[ScatmanRescueMe]

The two versions of the Kirk/David fight cause there to be two completely different versions of who left David out of Kirk's life.....

As originally written and shot---Carol DIDN'T tell Kirk about David. This means she decieved both Kirk & David for 20+ years

As reshot, Kirk knew and DECIDED never to contact his son !!!
I find that very out of character for Kirk. It's one thing to have affairs with multiple women--it's a totally different thing to just ignore your own flesh & blood because the woman doesn't want you in HER life.
Don't fathers have rights in the 23rd century?? Didn't he care?

I really prefer the original version. it puts the onus on Carol---a new character the audience can either embrace or not---rather than making our hero of many years a total a**hole indifferent absentee father...

 

[guardian]

Well, one of them has to be jerk about the situation....

I'd prefer it be Carol since she never returned anyway.

Kirk is a pretty persuasive person--he couldn't convince Carol to let him know the boy even after he was say 14 years old?

That makes him into more of a jerk than he was previously shown to be.
Besides, his reactions later in the movie show he really wished he had known the true story---not, 'oh sh*t the jig is up, now I gotta be a dad'

I'd pay money to see the original version and i will if Paramount does right by the Blu-ray release............

 

[Grant]

2, 3, 4 & 6 all have deleted scenes never seen.
Not that we've lost Dee Kelley and Doohan it'd be great to see them again in scenes that were probably pretty good despite the fact they were cut for whatever reason.

I really want to see the 'McCoy possesed' turbo-lift scene form TSFS. It'a at least a full minute & 1/2 and Nimoy said it was great work but it gave too much away.

It's in the DC adaptation and novel and TSFS especially had a lot more lost stuff.

 

[ScatmanRescueMe]

^^Yes Deleted scenes are a MUST for any future releases of the TOS movies

3 of the 4 TNG movies had deleted scenes on DVD, but only 2 of 6 TOS movies?

And the 'deleted scenes' from TMP were simply scenes that had been in one version or another but NOT IN the DC---NOT scenes that we had never seen before.

I think Paramount was holding back the deleted scenes from the TOS movie for one last big hurrah. A tie-in for the re-start of the movie franchise seems the logical place to fianlly give us those scenes..........

 

[Maurice]

I think it worthwhile to point out that not every line in a screenplay gets shot. You try things out on the set and sometimes you change it or your drop out bits. Of of the trimmed lines cited might never actually have made it to a printed take.

 

[guardian]

^^ True, BUT almost all the scenes from TWOK listed above were shot..........

The Romulan Heritage scene
The 'bridge finale' scene
the scenes of the child on the planet and in the Reliant transporter
both scenes in sickbay with McCoy working on Chevov/ Chekov waking up
the original version of the Kirk/David fight
the longer version of the Saavik/Spock scene in the torpedo bay
Sulu's promotion mention in the shuttle
the 'Eden cave' dialogue between David/Saavik
etc
etc

The actors have commented on most of these as having been filmed...
Butrick decried the deletion of his scene in the cave with Kirstie
we've seen footage of the romulan heritage and bridge finale
we've seen stills of the child
Meyer has commented on the studio making him reshoot the Kirk/David fight
Takei has commented on the shooting of the 'promotion' scene in the shuttle.
The Making of TWOK book from 1982 also mentions these scenes as being shot.
Also James Horner has stated that the first cut he got of TWOK to temp score, ran 127 minutes WITHOUT end credits---that's ten minutes longer (plus the 5 minutes of the end credits not being there) meaning the movie was 15 minutes longer than the DC.

So that stuff was shot for sure.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Takei has commented on the shooting of the 'promotion' scene in the shuttle.

I've spoken to George Takei about this scene several times. He confirmed it was definitely filmed but reckons the footage is unusable because Shatner fluffed his reaction shots each time. The scene was promised by Meyer and Bennett to get Takei to sign up for ST II. Similarly, the ST IV ancestor scene was to coax Takei to sign, but the child actor refused to perform before light failed.

If I recall an Yvonne Craig anecdote from TOS correctly - she worked opposite Shatner in "Whom Gods Destroy" - Shatner had some sneaky ways to get his own way on certain camera angles, sometimes disguised as him acting the fool for the sake of cameraderie. He would often cross his eyes during two-shots, thus surprising his co-star so that it would make certain footage unusable, leaving only his closeups to be chosen by editors.

I once interviewed Paul Winfield about the child scene - and he said "Terrell" definitely was filmed in an unscripted roll down an embankment, reacting to the surprise of the child's face in the porthole. That footage will never be seen because it broke union regulations: a white stuntman was put into blackface makeup.

 

[ScatmanRescueMe]

Well the baby is seen in two other scenes regardless (inside the cargo carrier and in the Reliant transporter room) --so those should be in any deleted section, in any event.

It doesn't matter that the scenes that were cut were not 'ready for prime time'--such as Shatner not doing a great job in the Sulu scene--that's the point of cut scenes--they are usually cut for a reason.
So, if the Sulu scene was cut because Shatner blew it or because it just wasn't important to the story as others have said, we should get to see it and decide for ourselves.

Usually the director says the scene was great but was cut for pacing etc.----
That may be the diplomatic answer and by showing the scenes the viewer can make up our own mind.

 

[Data Holmes]

...That footage will never be seen because it broke union regulations: a white stuntman was put into blackface makeup.

I have a question, that footage couldn't be used in the film because of union regs, but what about in a special feature section on a DVD? How would the union regs effect it's use there?

 

[ScatmanRescueMe]

In any case they could use the footage up to where Winfield is replaced by the double.

The scene has Chekov looking in the window and being frightened by the child--then he calls over Terrell.....

In the script terrell doesn't see anything and then they preceed inside.
If they improvised a sequence where Terrell looks inside and is startled and falls---well that doesn't mean they couldn't show the earlier stuff.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I have a question, that footage couldn't be used in the film because of union regs, but what about in a special feature section on a DVD? How would the union regs effect it's use there?

You really want to poke a bear on a technicality?

 

[Therin of Andor]

So, if the Sulu scene was cut because Shatner blew it or because it just wasn't important to the story as others have said, we should get to see it and decide for ourselves.

Sorry, whether Shatner did bad takes on purpose or accidentally, are you really saying that every bad take an actor ever does on a film set should be fodder for the minions' consumption?

It's my understanding that actors have to sign-off on items used on "TV Bloopers and Practical Jokes", or blooper segments added to DVDs. If a take is just bad, it's not our right to see it. Actors have rights, too, which overwrite our curiosity.

 

[Data Holmes]

I have a question, that footage couldn't be used in the film because of union regs, but what about in a special feature section on a DVD? How would the union regs effect it's use there?

You really want to poke a bear on a technicality?

Always. Same with bee hives, cats, annoying people... It's a part of my nature.

 

[guardian]

Who says that a bad take or performance WAS the reason the scene was cut?

That's Takei version---Shatner's performance may be just fine and the scene was cut for other reasons.

In that case, there is no reason not to show the scene on a future realease.

Of course they wouldn't put a obvious bad performance on the DVD, but most cut scenes are left out for other reasons than that.
Why assume the perforance is bad therefore the scene should never be seen?
I believe that Shatner is enough of a pro that he gave a usable take.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I believe that Shatner is enough of a pro that he gave a usable take.

Sure, but many other things can happen to render the one one good acting take unusable. Lighting problems, set pieces dropping to the floor, wardrobe malfunctions, etc.

Believe Shatner's version if you like, but I heard it from George Takei long before his reputation for publicly bawling out Shatner for stealing his lines in TOS, and similar ST II anecdotes from production crew members. Yvonne Craig and several other female guest stars have told their stories of Shatner deliberately crossing his eyes during their closeups. You reckon they all have it in for Shatner to conspire on this stuff?

Paul Winfield's take on Shatner was that he "did not get along with" Kirstie Alley, making their elevator scene in the ABC-TV version even more amusing, since Kirk and Saavik had to play mutual attraction in that.

It's also been said that Sulu's promotion scene was never intended to be in the film, but was only added to cajole Takei into signing up. Maybe Shatner was told it wasn't going to be used?

 

[Grant]

Gee, are there ANY deleted scenes from TWOK that we may be permitted to see???

Or is there some lobby/special interest group that we might offend by watching any & all of them?

The deleted scenes from TFF were pretty bad for many reasons--worse than the rest of the movie, but we saw them and nobody died or had their carrer ruined or was the victim of black-listing.
They simply weren't that good and it's nice to see they made some good decisions in the editing.

TWOK was a well-written, acted & directed movie & I think a lot of the stuff will be of fine quality, but just made the movie too long for Paramount and/or Meyer.

Most directors are glad that some deleteds see the light of day because the actors worked hard on them and the deletion wasn't the fault of the actors in any way. Most of the cuts from TWOK were Shatner, Nimoy, Aley, Kelley, Besch & Butrick all who gave good perfomances in the movie.
let's see 'em !!

 

[Therin of Andor]

Or is there some lobby/special interest group that we might offend by watching any & all of them?

In my earlier post, I was referring only to the blackfaced white stuntman's fall when playing Terrell, not the whole face-at-the-window scene. That impromptu stunt action, ordered by the director, caused friction with the stunt people's union; a white stuntman was on call, but an African American stunt person should have been ordered a day ahead. Not screening the footage was/is necessary to avoid court action.

The deleted scenes from TFF were pretty bad for many reasons--worse than the rest of the movie, but we saw them and nobody died or had their carrer ruined or was the victim of black-listing.
They simply weren't that good and it's nice to see they made some good decisions in the editing.

Well, you realise there were hundreds of alternate takes - and lots more "God" alien heads we never saw.

TWOK was a well-written, acted & directed movie & I think a lot of the stuff will be of fine quality, but just made the movie too long for Paramount and/or Meyer.

Then go to Youtube and view the ShoWest presentation reel.

Most directors are glad that some deleteds see the light of day because the actors worked hard on them and the deletion wasn't the fault of the actors in any way.

Huh? No, many directors (and actors) only want us to see the theatrical version. That's why we have "Director's Editions" of TMP and ST II on DVD, but "Collector's Editions" of the other eight movies.

Most of the cuts from TWOK were Shatner, Nimoy, Aley, Kelley, Besch & Butrick all who gave good perfomances in the movie.
let's see 'em !!

If you've seen the ShoWest reel, you'll know that most of Alley's unused scenes are quite clunky. She mispronounces planet names and her casual hairstyle is seen more often, and in the wrong scenes. There's nothing particularly good about the way the "she is half Romulan, Jim" scene plays out, and do we really need to see her flirting with David and (in the ABC version) his Dad?

 

[Grant]

Agenda Much?

 

[ScatmanRescueMe]

I agree we should never see cut scenes.
I urge everyone not to watch deleted scenes.
Do not view the show-west trailer on youtube
Do not access the deleted scetion on your TFF DVD
Do mot look at stills of deleted scenes
Do not read the deleted scenes posted in this thread
Do not watch the alternate turbo-lift scene just posted on Youtube by Oso Blanco
They may contain bad acting, bad writing, bad continuity, stuff you don't want to know.

 

[ClayinCA]

Do mot look at stills of deleted scenes

What's the Enterprise-D's barber got to do with this?