Trek's lowest moment

[Jonas Grumby]

Kirk says straight out in "Patterns of Force" that the Nazi leaders were evil and psychotic. He also says, again straight out, that the Nazi state was brutal and perverted and that it had to be destroyed at a terrible cost. Kirk is shocked that his former instructor would dare to pattern a culture after it. It's impossible for me to interpret that as anything other than direct condemnation.

I think that is the actual intent and substance of the episode. Not "Look! We've got kewl Nazi uniforms!"

 

[BK613]

Kirk says straight out in "Patterns of Force" that the Nazi leaders were evil and psychotic. He also says, again straight out, that the Nazi state was brutal and perverted and that it had to be destroyed at a terrible cost. Kirk is shocked that his former instructor would dare to pattern a culture after it. It's impossible for me to interpret that as anything other than direct condemnation.

I think that is the actual intent and substance of the episode. Not "Look! We've got kewl Nazi uniforms!"

Exactly. Being a fan since the early 70s (age 10 or so,) this episode is probably the first exposure I had to themes relating to the Holocaust as well.

ABROM: Isak, Uletta is dead. Shot down in the streets.
ISAK: She would've been my wife.
ABROM: She lived for five hours while they walked past her and spat on her. Our own people were unable to help her. Now you ask me to help strangers.
ISAK: If we adopt the ways of the Nazis, we're as bad as the Nazis.

Definitely doesn't condone or trivialize Nazi Germany.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

And speaking of cartoon stupidity there was an episode of The Simpsons banned in Australia because Bart was walking around showing his bum. Cited as "child porn"

It was the politicians that did that.

That's nothing; the cover of the 1992 Simpsons calendar has Bart on it lying on his tummy, foot up, naked, with Homer in the lower corner giving him the stink-eye.

Really? I don't remember that. I do remember that the "monorail" episode was taken out of the schedule without warning when Sydney was considering one of those white elephants. Which we now have, and which is just as useless as the episode pointed out. Now apparently "light rail" (trams/street cars/trolleycars) is the answer. They're like buses, except they have a bigger carbon footprint and can't go around obstacles - awesome! The Simpsons should do an episode about that.

Both monorail and LRT are good forms of transit, and there's info on monorails as well (The Monorail Society) and LRT (http://lrt.daxack.ca)

I think at the time, the perspective was different. The same era gave us Hogan's Heroes, were almost every German character was played Jewish actors, at least two of which were from Europe. Robert Clary. who played the French POW LeBeau, was in a concentration camp and lost family members at Auschwitz. Of course Roddenberry, Doohan, Kelley and others served in the war. Younger cast and crew were no doubt impacted by the war as well. So many of the people who made TV in the Sixties were "closer" to the subject than we'll ever be. By treating Nazis and their ideology with a serious only, "hands off" attitude we actually give them more power than they deserve.

They were closer than us, yes. Some of them fought the German army on foreign soil, yes. But I think that's still a very different experience from actually having to live under Nazi rule on your own soil, seeing people disappear around you and such. Suppose the U.S would have had to endure all atrocities of Nazi occupation during WW2, would Hollywood in later years have "used" the Nazis slightly differently ?

It's an interesting question perhaps, but not one we'll ever be able to answer.

Interesting thing; the Brits made a TV show about the German occupation of France called 'Allo 'Allo! which was a sitcom poking fun at the Nazis and the French Resistance, IIRC, all seen through the eyes of a café owner. Despite the wartime experiences of the British, the show was quite popular and lasted a few seasons.

 

[galleywest]

1. The second "neuro-pressure" entered the Star Trek lexicon in ENT. Oh gawd, so cringeworthy. Really? Why not just call it "contrived-situation-for-sexy-coworkers-pressure"?

2. The bouncing on the bed scene in Rascals. I actually like this episode and I see what they were going for with that scene, but it's soooooo bad.

3. Mark Twain on the Enterprise in Time's Arrow pt. II. Again, I love this episode, but Mark effing Twain on the ship? Come on.

4. Riker as "chef" in TATV. Thanks for tarnishing my memory of two Trek shows in one fell swoop, Brannon Braga.

Those are the ones I can think of right now...

 

[SpocksOddSocks]

Interesting thing; the Brits made a TV show about the German occupation of France called 'Allo 'Allo! which was a sitcom poking fun at the Nazis and the French Resistance, IIRC, all seen through the eyes of a café owner. Despite the wartime experiences of the British, the show was quite popular and lasted a few seasons.

And the BBC still show repeats from time to time. I find it hilarious, but I know at least one person who has a problem with it for making light if the war.

 

[flandry84]

So,the producers wanted to portray the effects of racial hatred and persecution.I get that.
But if that were so why not have Kirk and Spock dress up as KKKlansmen then?(an altogether more relevant topic in 60's America).
Not half the fun then,eh?

 

[Forbin]

Because the KKK were not a model of efficient government worth emulating?

 

[-Brett-]

It was the 60s. Most of the audience probably agreed with the Klan.

Hell, if the internet is anything to go by, most of the audience probably still does.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

Well, Roddenberry came up with Colonel Green and his early 21st century fascist moment that committed a genocidal conflict against anybody thought unfit ('non-optimal') in the episode 'The Savage Curtin' and also expanded in Garfield & Judith Reeves Stevens's novel Federation.

 

[Elder Knight]

"Don't mention The War. I did, once, but I think I got away with it."

- - Basil Fawlty

 

[Nerys Myk]

So,the producers wanted to portray the effects of racial hatred and persecution.I get that.
But if that were so why not have Kirk and Spock dress up as KKKlansmen then?(an altogether more relevant topic in 60's America).
Not half the fun then,eh?

Because the wardrobe department has more Nazi uniforms.

 

[T'Girl]

But if that were so why not have Kirk and Spock dress up as KKKlansmen then?(an altogether more relevant topic in 60's America).

No, the episode was a little over two decade after the fall of the Nazi government, many American had directly fought the Nazis. Outside of the south-eastern portion of the country most Americans of the time had never seen a Klansman.

The Nazis were a better choice for the episode's villians, they were certainly the large horror.

It was the 60s. Most of the audience probably agreed with the Klan..

On the contrariety, the majority of the American audience in the 60's wouldn't. From the Klan's height in the 1920's with millions of open members, it had fallen to about twenty thousand members in the 1960's, even in the south-east they were increasingly a thing of the past.

Riker as "chef" in TATV.

In an episode that I didn't like, this made sense. There were a few references in TNG that Riker enjoyed cooking for others.

 

[Jetboogieman]

This:

Sorry, folks. Google strikes again. Please remember the new posting rules when it comes to scantily clad folks.

 

[Zaminhon]

Dixon Hill.

 

[Nerys Myk]

This:

An attractive woman in skimpy clothes in a Star Trek production? That's about as rare as hydrogen.

 

[galleywest]

Riker as "chef" in TATV.

In an episode that I didn't like, this made sense. There were a few references in TNG that Riker enjoyed cooking for others.

I'm cheesy enough that I'd give it a pass in almost any other episode--but that he's in the middle of the Pegasus crisis and stops to be holo-chef is so out in left-field to me. He did enjoy cooking for other people (real ones, anyway), but he was also a good officer and thus, I like to think, would be more focused on the moral and professional crisis at hand rather than making meals for the crew of the NX-01. I know, I know, this is supposed to be him "working it out," but it felt like such a contrived excuse to get a TNG character in the finale. I guess what I'm saying is, I don't mind it as a concept so much as I mind the whole idea of it shoe-horned awkwardly into the Enterprise finale. Plus it doesn't help that I had gone to see Brannon Braga at a speaking engagement a few weeks prior to the finale, where he described this (not for the first time) as a real valentine for the fans. That made it sting just that much more.

However, I'm glad that it wasn't a low point for someone, maybe your comments will help me see it in a more positive light.

 

[BillJ]

This:

Sorry.... http://s1187.photobucket.com/user/BillJ66/media/jackson_zps3f58c50a.png.html

 

[T'Girl]

Difference being of course that Andrea does not strip down to that, pose for the camera, and then put her clothes back on. That's her costume for the entirety of the episode. On top of which she wearing a hell of a lot more than Doctor Carol in the shuttle interior scene.

Even when we've seen strippers on the show they're wearing considerably more.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

^Right. Terry Farrell wore a one-piece bathing suit for much of "Let He Who is Without Sin...", which was handled much tastefully than that, as she usually wore a cloth over the bottom of the suit.

--Sran

 

[BillJ]

Difference being of course that Andrea does not strip down to that, pose for the camera, and then put her clothes back on. That's her costume for the entirety of the episode. On top of which she wearing a hell of a lot more than Doctor Carol in the shuttle interior scene.

Even when we've seen strippers on the show they're wearing considerably more.

I'm sure the camel toe was there for story purposes.

Star Trek has never been prudish when it comes to sex and female eye candy. To only start complaining when it is part of a movie one dislikes, seems hypocritical at best.

Funny thing is, Zoe Saldana did the exact same striptease in Star Trek (2009) and it seems hardly anyone noticed.