Trek's lowest moment

[Cyke101]

In a distant future where time travel is as common as space travel in Trek's time, I have no issue with it. Especially since Daniels and his fellow agents are fighting an ongoing time war.

The greater crime, I think, is this: the time war is vast and cosmic and on a scale that was beyond comprehension (even the writers'!). So who does the Federation send to handle this? Possibly the blandest, least exciting recurring character in all of Trek.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

[For lowest moment, what most comes to mind is most of the episodes "Aquiel" and "Precious Cargo".

Aquiel I thought as being kind of a middle of the road episode in term of quality and enjoyment.

The primary problem with Precious Cargo was the actress hired for the role of the princess, I feel her acting abilities were marginal, and it certainly would have been a better episode if the actress hired had had far more on screen chemistry with Conner Trinneer.

I thought both episodes felt pretty annoyingly cliched and the romantic elements really forced.

Some notable other low moments: Riker remembering scenes in which he wasn't there in "Shades of Grey" (the cheapest moment), the term de-evolving in "Genesis" (one of the dumbest) and the dune buggy chase in Nemesis (dumb for existing just to please a star).

Precious Cargo is bad on many levels. It's an anti-feminist story driven by cliches, but which doesn't even bring fresh humor to the table. Padma Lakshmi is the icing on this inedible cake: she could tank any episode on her own.

 

[T'Girl]

... and the dune buggy chase in Nemesis (dumb for existing just to please a star).

I wonder if Patrick Stewart's compensation package had been the same, but TPTB had refused to include the dune buggy sequence, if Stewart would have refused to do the movie?

 

[fireproof78]

... and the dune buggy chase in Nemesis (dumb for existing just to please a star).

I wonder if Patrick Stewart's compensation package had been the same, but TPTB had refused to include the dune buggy sequence, if Stewart would have refused to do the movie?

Possibly, given how much influence both Stewart and Spinner had by the time of the last film. I have no way of knowing for sure, but I can't see the studios refusing Stewart much of anything.

 

[eyeresist]

... and the dune buggy chase in Nemesis (dumb for existing just to please a star).

I wonder if Patrick Stewart's compensation package had been the same, but TPTB had refused to include the dune buggy sequence, if Stewart would have refused to do the movie?

Are you asking if Stewart would have refused to do the movie without the chase? That seems unlikely. My understanding is that with all the movies, the cast were consulted on the script and suggestions taken on board - if it was felt they would improve the movie. In this case, I suspect Stewart was worried about his character becoming passive and reactive, and wanted something to emphasise that Picard is still the protagonist of the story. But he's not a writer, and I think most actors feel they have to trust writers and producers to know what they are doing, so I don't think he ever said "dune buggy or I walk!"

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

Pavel Chekov joining Starfleet. Because of Chekov, a homicidal maniac escaped exile, resulting in the destruction of three starships, the deaths of two-and-a-half Starfleet captains, a Federation scientist and the entire crew compliment of a Klingon vessel (save Maltz, though he may have committed suicide later).

What's more, Chekov's incompetence nearly contaminated the timeline due his being chased through an aircraft carrier by naval personnel, a futile escape attempt that resulted in his suffered a closed head-injury and subsequent epidural hematoma. Had McCoy not been able to evacuate the bleeding with his strange contraption (which somehow also repaired the damage to Chekov's middle meningeal artery), he likely would have died due to exsanguination and cerebral herniation.

--Sran

 

[eyeresist]

Chekov is the mascot.

 

[2takesfrakes]

Whilst not exactly "Trek's lowest moment," I would have to say when the make-up department started turning beautiful actresses into Mushroom Heads with cheap-looking, unflattering wigs. Yes, many of these actresses are absolutely gorgeous, but that doesn't mean they can pull off anything and everything. Mushroom-head Wigs don't do them, or STAR TREK justice. And I do, sorely, hope that if and/or when this franchise ever returns to television (or whatever) these wigs are given a miss, next time around ...

 

[flandry84]

Kirk & Spock dressed as "Nazzies(sic)".
Picard & Worf singing.

"plato's stepchildren"..nuff said indeed.


Ooh,almost forgot that DS9 episode where the runabout and it's crew get miniaturised.....an idea too stupid to live.

 

[BillJ]

Pavel Chekov joining Starfleet. Because of Chekov, a homicidal maniac escaped exile, resulting in the destruction of three starships, the deaths of two-and-a-half Starfleet captains, a Federation scientist and the entire crew compliment of a Klingon vessel (save Maltz, though he may have committed suicide later).

What's more, Chekov's incompetence nearly contaminated the timeline due his being chased through an aircraft carrier by naval personnel, a futile escape attempt that resulted in his suffered a closed head-injury and subsequent epidural hematoma. Had McCoy not been able to evacuate the bleeding with his strange contraption (which somehow also repaired the damage to Chekov's middle meningeal artery), he likely would have died due to exsanguination and cerebral herniation.

--Sran

To be fair, it is likely the Reliant navigator that made the mistake of misidentifying Ceti Alpha VI. Plus, it wasn't Chekov's incompetence that resulted in the timeline being polluted, it was the radiation interfering with the Bird-of-Prey transporters.

Trying to escape authorities is likely a Starfleet regulation in those types of situations. Kirk tries to escape the U.S. Air Force base in "Tomorrow is Yesterday".

You seem to be hanging an awful lot on Chekov with no real reason.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

^My post was meant to be humorous.

--Sran

 

[Nerys Myk]

Kirk & Spock dressed as "Nazzies(sic)".
.

Not sure I get the problem. Is it the fact they dressed in Nazi uniforms or that the plot of the episode used Nazis?

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Whilst not exactly "Trek's lowest moment," I would have to say when the make-up department started turning beautiful actresses into Mushroom Heads with cheap-looking, unflattering wigs. Yes, many of these actresses are absolutely gorgeous, but that doesn't mean they can pull off anything and everything. Mushroom-head Wigs don't do them, or STAR TREK justice. And I do, sorely, hope that if and/or when this franchise ever returns to television (or whatever) these wigs are given a miss, next time around ...

Maybe the wigs can be used as tribbles...


Oh and on Chekov wouldn't leaving all those items in the hands of the Navy contaminate the timeline? The gun and communicator

Although I do wonder if they just threw them out in the trash which was even worse or they were carted off to s secret location to be examined.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

^IIRC, those items were retrieved by Roberta Lincoln and Gary Seven.

--Sran

 

[flandry84]

Kirk & Spock dressed as "Nazzies(sic)".
.

Not sure I get the problem. Is it the fact they dressed in Nazi uniforms or that the plot of the episode used Nazis?

The weight of just what those uniforms represented.And what?a mere 25-30 years before this episode was made.
Consider also both Shatner's and Nimoy's heritage.
The whole Nazi thing is too easily glamourised and trivialised IMHO.Maybe the uniforms etc. were there in the wardrobe dept. but a little thought and care needs to be brought to issues like this.
BTW the same goes for that WW2 Voyager/ hirogen episode.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Kirk & Spock dressed as "Nazzies(sic)".
.

Not sure I get the problem. Is it the fact they dressed in Nazi uniforms or that the plot of the episode used Nazis?

The weight of just what those uniforms represented.And what?a mere 25-30 years before this episode was made.
Consider also both Shatner's and Nimoy's heritage.
The whole Nazi thing is too easily glamourised and trivialised IMHO.Maybe the uniforms etc. where there in the wardrobe dept. but a little thought and care needs to be brought to issues like this.
BTW the same goes for that WW2 Voyager/ hirogen episode.

I think at the time, the perspective was different. The same era gave us Hogan's Heroes, were almost every German character was played Jewish actors, at least two of which were from Europe. Robert Clary. who played the French POW LeBeau, was in a concentration camp and lost family members at Auschwitz. Of course Roddenberry, Doohan, Kelley and others served in the war. Younger cast and crew were no doubt impacted by the war as well. So many of the people who made TV in the Sixties were "closer" to the subject than we'll ever be. By treating Nazis and their ideology with a serious only, "hands off" attitude we actually give them more power than they deserve.

 

[flandry84]

We'll agree to disagree on this I think.The entire episode seems misjudged to me and I find the image of Kirk & Spock in their Nazi uniforms as seriously dispiriting.

 

[at Quark's]

I think at the time, the perspective was different. The same era gave us Hogan's Heroes, were almost every German character was played Jewish actors, at least two of which were from Europe. Robert Clary. who played the French POW LeBeau, was in a concentration camp and lost family members at Auschwitz. Of course Roddenberry, Doohan, Kelley and others served in the war. Younger cast and crew were no doubt impacted by the war as well. So many of the people who made TV in the Sixties were "closer" to the subject than we'll ever be. By treating Nazis and their ideology with a serious only, "hands off" attitude we actually give them more power than they deserve.

They were closer than us, yes. Some of them fought the German army on foreign soil, yes. But I think that's still a very different experience from actually having to live under Nazi rule on your own soil, seeing people disappear around you and such. Suppose the U.S would have had to endure all atrocities of Nazi occupation during WW2, would Hollywood in later years have "used" the Nazis slightly differently ?

It's an interesting question perhaps, but not one we'll ever be able to answer.

EDIT:

I'd like to add to this that I don't think there's much wrong with patterns of force. The episode actually delves into some of the Nazi ideology -- and condemns it strongly, even though the episode has some "fun" dressing up as Nazis. The Hirogen episode, on the other hand, seems merely a shallow excuse to pit the VOY crew against them evil Nazis. That would bother me more in that respect.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Kirk says straight out in "Patterns of Force" that the Nazi leaders were evil and psychotic. He also says, again straight out, that the Nazi state was brutal and perverted and that it had to be destroyed at a terrible cost. Kirk is shocked that his former instructor would dare to pattern a culture after it. It's impossible for me to interpret that as anything other than direct condemnation.

 

[Nerys Myk]

We'll agree to disagree on this I think.The entire episode seems misjudged to me and I find the image of Kirk & Spock in their Nazi uniforms as seriously dispiriting.

Why is that dispiriting? They were simply disguised as Nazis, not actual Nazis. Why make it any different than any other times Trek characters have gone "undercover"? Placing Nazis on a pedestal perpetuates their "mystique". Keep them on the ground or better yet in the gutter, where they belong.