Trek's lowest moment

[FormerLurker]

So many of the myriad complaints about Abrams Trek come down to one thing when accounting for source and which elements are being complained about; they all strike me as so much "It's wrong because it's not how I would have done it." And that's how it strikes me not only here, but across the 'net.

^ How is that any different than people who like/love the movies, just because they do?

Simple. Liking/loving the movie, or any movie, just because they do isn't quantifiable. It's opinion, expressed as opinion. Conversely, "It's wrong because it's not how I would have done it" is very quantifiable, opinion expressed as fact. The reason being that they're saying "It's wrong" rather than "I don't like it". When the reason they're saying "It's wrong" is merely that they don't like it, not because of some quantifiable quality about it that's intrinsically wrong, bad or destructive.

Simply put, "It's wrong because it's not how I would have done it" means nothing more and nothing less than "It's not how I would have done it, therefore I don't like it, therefore it's wrong, and anyone who disagrees with me is also wrong."

 

[Trekkin]

Since when did 'didn't watch Trek' or 'not a fan' mean the same thing as 'thought was bad?' That's like saying that just because I'm not a fan of The Walking Dead (for various reasons), then I must think it's horrible.

The only time I've ever seen Abrams refer to seeing a specific episode/movie, was seeing TMP with his father. If that was his primary exposure to Trek, no bloody wonder he thought the series was lost up its own ass. If my 14-year-old-self's DVD hadn't included TWOK as a double feature, I probably wouldn't have watched any more of the movie franchise either.

I did avoid TNG for years after I rented the first 4 eps on VHS, for pretty much the same reason Abrams stated he hadn't liked the series. However, he was more polite about it than me. I would have said that I considered the episodes I watched to be 'pseudo philosophical,' 'dull as dishwater,' 'bland' and 'fucking patronising.'

Luckily for me, I'd watched DS9, TOS and VOY first. I knew those TNG episodes didn't represent the entire Trek franchise, but someone watching TNG in its initial airing wouldn't. That knowledge, my completist nature, and TNG's rep, convinced me to soldier through S1 and give it another go. But I totally understand how someone could see a chunk of early TNG in its initial run, and then just dismiss the franchise completely. It would have been like trying to get someone into TOS by showing them Spock's Brain, The Children Shall Lead, and the Alternative Factor.

 

[T'Girl]

^ How is that any different than people who like/love the movies, just because they do?

Simple. Liking/loving the movie, or any movie, just because they do isn't quantifiable. It's opinion, expressed as opinion. Conversely, "It's wrong because it's not how I would have done it" is very quantifiable, opinion expressed as fact.

But both come down to a personal opinion on the movie. If you like it that means you approve of the way it was made and presented, the positives out weigh the negatives. Basically it was made the way you would have had it made..

If you dislike a movie then the opposite.

Without going into the particulars (unless you want to), I dislike the Abrams movies, the negatives out weigh the positives, and there are positives in my mind.

On the other hand I did like Insurrection, while admittedly flawed I felt the positives out weighed the negatives. It was (with some exceptions) made the way I would have made it. Which is why I like it. Other fans feel different.

")

 

[fireproof78]

^ How is that any different than people who like/love the movies, just because they do?

Simple. Liking/loving the movie, or any movie, just because they do isn't quantifiable. It's opinion, expressed as opinion. Conversely, "It's wrong because it's not how I would have done it" is very quantifiable, opinion expressed as fact.

But both come down to a personal opinion on the movie. If you like it that means you approve of the way it was made and presented, the positives out weigh the negatives. Basically it was made the way you would have had it made..

If you dislike a movie then the opposite.

Without going into the particulars (unless you want to), I dislike the Abrams movies, the negatives out weigh the positives, and there are positives in my mind.

On the other hand I did like Insurrection, while admittedly flawed I felt the positives out weighed the negatives. It was (with some exceptions) made the way I would have made it. Which is why I like it. Other fans feel different.

")

I think that's the best expression of a film opinion that i have seen in a while. It is a matter of the good outweighing the bad.

I am the opposite of you, though (IDIC, anyone?) because Insurrection has interesting ideas, but not a great follow-through, while I think the positives outweigh the negatives in Abrams films.

But, I appreciate your expressing that opinion

 

[Shaka Zulu]

When Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson raised an eyebrow on Voyager, I facepalmed.

That's not really that low a moment, and his character wan't that bad.

 

[Cyke101]

When Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson raised an eyebrow on Voyager, I facepalmed.

That's not really that low a moment, and his character wan't that bad.

I don't mind him on the show. I had a much bigger problem with the way Tuvok was taken out. He knows martial arts styles of 3 worlds -- he should've been a part of the fight, too!

 

[martok2112]

When Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson raised an eyebrow on Voyager, I facepalmed.

That's not really that low a moment, and his character wan't that bad.

I don't mind him on the show. I had a much bigger problem with the way Tuvok was taken out. He knows martial arts styles of 3 worlds -- he should've been a part of the fight, too!

Someone else knew the martial arts style of a fourth world.

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

Don't get me started on how habitually underutilized and generally less successful at his tasks Tuvok was in the back half of Voyager. I love Seven, so it's hypocritical of me to rant endlessly about this, but dammit I love Tuvok as well.

 

[fireproof78]

Don't get me started on how habitually underutilized and generally less successful at his tasks Tuvok was in the back half of Voyager. I love Seven, so it's hypocritical of me to rant endlessly about this, but dammit I love Tuvok as well.

I'm with you here as well. Tuvok is my second favorite Vulcan, and criminally underused at times. Tim Russ is a fun actor too, and so it would have been nice to see him forced to be more combative in that role.

Also, one of my favorite lines from him as well (from Scientific Method)

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

I'm with you here as well. Tuvok is my second favorite Vulcan, and criminally underused at times. Tim Russ is a fun actor too, and so it would have been nice to see him forced to be more combative in that role.

Also, one of my favorite lines from him as well (from Scientific Method)

Oh man, I love that scene.

 

[Kilana2]

I love all the Tuvok-Neelix interaction. Tuvix is a different thing. I was glad, when he was split into Tuvok and Neelix again.

 

[Trekkin]

See, if it wasn't for Janeways obviously guilty expression at the end of the episode, killing Tuvix would have been my lowest moment. The lack of any sort of follow up (that guilt lasted what, a day?) still kind of makes me want to include it.

But no, Phlox and Archer still win for me with their gleeful genocide. At least Voyager tried to show that their's was a decision without a 'good' answer.

Different folks/different strokes.

 

[Nightdiamond]

I love all the Tuvok-Neelix interaction. Tuvix is a different thing. I was glad, when he was split into Tuvok and Neelix again.

Yeah, Tuvok and Neelix were kind of underrated as a "duo". You had Mccoy and Spock, Odo and Quark. We almost had one with Pulaski and Data.

Tuvok could barely stand Neelix, and Neelix was always try get him to be cheerful (emotions).

So when Tuvok finally "danced" for Neelix, when he was leaving the ship to stay with a colony, it was something.

See, if it wasn't for Janeways obviously guilty expression at the end of the episode, killing Tuvix would have been my lowest moment. The lack of any sort of follow up (that guilt lasted what, a day?) still kind of makes me want to include it.

But no, Phlox and Archer still win for me with their gleeful genocide. At least Voyager tried to show that their's was a decision without a 'good' answer.

Different folks/different strokes.

If Phlox's opinion was based on something like, "these people are being really cruel to another culture", I could understand it.

But his decision was based on some real creepy reasoning.

I heard the Prime Directive was to be based on this case.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

I love all the Tuvok-Neelix interaction. Tuvix is a different thing. I was glad, when he was split into Tuvok and Neelix again.

I wasn't I felt very sad....

Surely if they had the use of the transporter they could have stored Tuvix in the buffer and then recreated Tuvok and Neelix then recreated Tuvix from the data they collected in the buffer..

 

[Overgeeked]

I love all the Tuvok-Neelix interaction. Tuvix is a different thing. I was glad, when he was split into Tuvok and Neelix again.

I wasn't I felt very sad....

Surely if they had the use of the transporter they could have stored Tuvix in the buffer and then recreated Tuvok and Neelix then recreated Tuvix from the data they collected in the buffer..

Right? I get the whole dramatic license and it's just a show thing, but even a tiny bit of consistency with what these devices can do would be great. So they can scan your body on the quantum-level, destroy your body, send a stream of data to a distant location, and recreate your body perfectly at the quantum-level so that your new body "you" is just as much "you" as your old body was... yet they can't just skip the "destroy" step and create a duplicate... unless it's on accident... and only when dramatically appropriate.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

I love all the Tuvok-Neelix interaction. Tuvix is a different thing. I was glad, when he was split into Tuvok and Neelix again.

I wasn't I felt very sad....

Surely if they had the use of the transporter they could have stored Tuvix in the buffer and then recreated Tuvok and Neelix then recreated Tuvix from the data they collected in the buffer..

Right? I get the whole dramatic license and it's just a show thing, but even a tiny bit of consistency with what these devices can do would be great. So they can scan your body on the quantum-level, destroy your body, send a stream of data to a distant location, and recreate your body perfectly at the quantum-level so that your new body "you" is just as much "you" as your old body was... yet they can't just skip the "destroy" step and create a duplicate... unless it's on accident... and only when dramatically appropriate.

Exactly!!!!!

The transporters like the holodeck have plot filters that make them malfunction when the plot needs it but not when you might actually need them to do something specific

Yet didn't they do that once when a character was suffering extreme aging and almost dead they put them in the machine transported them, then recreated their younger body?

 

[Trekkin]

I love all the Tuvok-Neelix interaction. Tuvix is a different thing. I was glad, when he was split into Tuvok and Neelix again.

Yeah, Tuvok and Neelix were kind of underrated as a "duo". You had Mccoy and Spock, Odo and Quark. We almost had one with Pulaski and Data.

Tuvok could barely stand Neelix, and Neelix was always try get him to be cheerful (emotions).

So when Tuvok finally "danced" for Neelix, when he was leaving the ship to stay with a colony, it was something.

See, if it wasn't for Janeways obviously guilty expression at the end of the episode, killing Tuvix would have been my lowest moment. The lack of any sort of follow up (that guilt lasted what, a day?) still kind of makes me want to include it.

But no, Phlox and Archer still win for me with their gleeful genocide. At least Voyager tried to show that their's was a decision without a 'good' answer.

Different folks/different strokes.

If Phlox's opinion was based on something like, "these people are being really cruel to another culture", I could understand it.

But his decision was based on some real creepy reasoning.

I heard the Prime Directive was to be based on this case.

It was meant to show the origins of the Prime Directive. And if you were one of the people who saw the 'Modern' take on the PD as being inhumane, no doubt that Ep had you going 'I fucking knew it.'

 

[eyeresist]

Tuvok should have been the captain.

An episode where the central theme is about a dog urinating and then what happens to said dog and how its owner gets angry that others might get upset about it urinating.
Moment:Me having to think about dogs urinating.

This seems to be something Americans in particular have a problem with being suggested or even mentioned. (I recall an anime episode in which one of the characters really needed to pee (to comic effect), which caused outrage among viewers from Those United States.)

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

The Naruto episode? An io9 article?

Somehow I might know exactly what you're talking about.

 

[eyeresist]

^ It was "Sound of the Sky", episode 8: "Phone Duty — We Have an Emergency".