Trek authors - Kirk and Spock's first meetings(s)

[Stevil2001]

^ Well, the whole idea of the "origin story" is inherently comic book-y.

 

[ClayinCA]

Well, "Lieutenant" strongly indicates someone who's already graduated. The idea that you can earn lieutenant's rank while still in the Academy is something that didn't come along until TWOK -- and even there, it was possible that Saavik was meant to be something like a graduate student, someone who'd graduated with officer's rank and then gone back to command school. So maybe you could retcon it the way you suggest, but I'm talking about what Samuel Peeples probably intended, and I doubt that's it.

Oh yeah, I didn't mean to be unclear (which I see now I was): I was sort of intending my idea to be a retcon, just as any "explanation" of Kirk's middle initial "R" would have to be a retcon, whereas it originally just stood for Kirk's middle name. You're definitely right that Peeples certainly didn't it intend it the way I described it.

^ Well, the whole idea of the "origin story" is inherently comic book-y.

You say that like it's a bad thing!

 

[Gildir]

do Kirk and Spock meet in that old DC comic about Kirk's academy days? Titan (iirc) were reprinting it when their old Trek comic died circa 1992... can't seem to find it on Memory Beta...

it had Kirk meeting Mitchell and Carol Marcus and Finney who was on staff at the Academy as well as Finnegan. when the reprint title was canned, it was on a cliffhanger over someone cheating on a test and Kirk going off campus against curfew...

No, Spock never appears in that story.

 

[Gildir]

By the way, Kirk and Spock's first scene together in Enterprise: The First Adventure is carefully written in such a way that it's not clear that they've never met before, only that Spock doesn't know Kirk well. No idea whether or not Vonda McIntyre did that to avoid contradicting future stories, but it does mean that Enterprise: The First Adventure can co-exist with Collision Course and/or Cadet Kirk.

 

[Captain Robert April]

I kind of like the approach that the Phase II bunch are taking with the upcoming "Origins" episode, with Cadet Kirk taking his training cruise on the Enterprise, with newly promoted Fleet Captain Pike and Lt. Spock already in place.

 

[EliyahuQeoni]

I kind of like the approach that the Phase II bunch are taking with the upcoming "Origins" episode, with Cadet Kirk taking his training cruise on the Enterprise, with newly promoted Fleet Captain Pike and Lt. Spock already in place.

That sounds horrible.

 

[Admiral_Young]

It sounds like an interesting approach but not horrible. As I stated before earlier in the thread I've always looked at Kirk and Spock possibly knowing each other prior to "Where Know Man Has Gone Before" but not having fleshed out there working or personal relationship yet. They seem to have established a repertoire with one another and I think the key line is the one Kirk delivers at the end of the episode where he states "There's hope for you yet Mr. Spock" to which I think Spock responds with an eyebrow arch.

 

[EliyahuQeoni]

It sounds like an interesting approach but not horrible.

No, its sounds horrible. It sounds like the definition of Small Universe Syndrome.

 

[Captain Robert April]

Quite the contrary, it lines up quite nicely, while unexpectedly, with the dialogue in "The Menagerie", that Kirk met Pike when Pike was promoted to Fleet Captain, and that Spock served under Pike for over eleven years, while neatly nixing the implication that Pike's promotion and Kirk's assumption of command of the Enterprise occurred at the same time.

 

[BillJ]

I kind of like the approach that the Phase II bunch are taking with the upcoming "Origins" episode, with Cadet Kirk taking his training cruise on the Enterprise, with newly promoted Fleet Captain Pike and Lt. Spock already in place.

Sounds just as forced as Star Trek 2009.

 

[Captain Robert April]

Except this approach has a basis in canon.

 

[EJA]

The Shatnerverse young Kirk made nuKirk look like a choirboy. As I recall, he was involved in drug dealing, car boosting, and lived in a shack down by the docks with his brother, who was in danger of being killed by the mob for screwing them on a deal.

Oh. My. God.

 

[JarodRussell]

It sounds like an interesting approach but not horrible.

No, its sounds horrible. It sounds like the definition of Small Universe Syndrome.

I thought the new movie was that definition. It can't get any smaller than that.

 

[David cgc]

The Shatnerverse young Kirk made nuKirk look like a choirboy. As I recall, he was involved in drug dealing, car boosting, and lived in a shack down by the docks with his brother, who was in danger of being killed by the mob for screwing them on a deal.

Oh. My. God.

And Kirk's father was a total asshole, nothing like the saint in ST 09.

 

[BillJ]

The Shatnerverse young Kirk made nuKirk look like a choirboy. As I recall, he was involved in drug dealing, car boosting, and lived in a shack down by the docks with his brother, who was in danger of being killed by the mob for screwing them on a deal.

Oh. My. God.

And Kirk's father was a total asshole, nothing like the saint in ST 09.

Kinda like how a lot of us saw our fathers' at that age.

In Star Trek 2009, we only see the briefest glimpse of George Kirk. Collision Course fleshes him out a bit more and examines him through the eyes of a son.

 

[BillJ]

Except this approach has a basis in canon.

But doesn't that leave a hell of a huge gap between the Pike and Kirk Enterprise commands?

 

[F. King Daniel]

Oh. My. God.

And Kirk's father was a total asshole, nothing like the saint in ST 09.

Kinda like how a lot of us saw our fathers' at that age.

In Star Trek 2009, we only see the briefest glimpse of George Kirk. Collision Course fleshes him out a bit more and examines him through the eyes of a son.

The Joseph Kirk is Collision Course is based on William Shatner's father. The George Kirk in STXI is based on George Samuel Kirk, Sr. from Diane Carey's Final Frontier and Best Destiny. In the latter we see George through the eyes of teenage Jim (who in turn informed the rebellious young Jim Kirk of STXI).

 

[JarodRussell]

Except this approach has a basis in canon.

But doesn't that leave a hell of a huge gap between the Pike and Kirk Enterprise commands?

Why?

 

[David cgc]

In Star Trek 2009, we only see the briefest glimpse of George Kirk.

We also found out that he was a big influence on Kirk Prime. "Collision Course" didn't depict anything like young Kirk joining Starfleet because he was inspired by his father's general awesomeness. As I recall, it was a bit more like how Principle Skinner ended up in the military. "I could apologize to the old woman, I could go to jail, or I could join the army. If I'd know there was a war on, I probably would've apologized."

 

[BillJ]

Except this approach has a basis in canon.

But doesn't that leave a hell of a huge gap between the Pike and Kirk Enterprise commands?

Why?

Cadet to Captain for Kirk in the Prime universe is roughly eleven years.

I would have to imagine a 'Fleet Captain' would no longer be in 'Operational Command' of a starship once promoted.

The implication I got from the episode was that Kirk took over command when Pike was promoted...

MENDEZ: You ever met Chris Pike?
KIRK: When he was promoted to Fleet Captain.
MENDEZ: About your age. Big, handsome man, vital, active.
KIRK: I took over the Enterprise from him. Spock served with him for several years.

If we use The Next Generation as a template, there is a ceremonial changing of command on starships.

COMPUTER: Transfer complete. USS Enterprise now under command of Captain Edward Jellico.
JELLICO: I relieve you, sir.
PICARD: I stand relieved.

So either he met Pike twice... or the promotion to 'Fleet Captain' happened at the same time as Kirk took command of the Enterprise.