Trek authors - Kirk and Spock's first meetings(s)

[BillJ]

We also found out that he was a big influence on Kirk Prime. "Collision Course" didn't depict anything like young Kirk joining Starfleet because he was inspired by his father's general awesomeness. As I recall, it was a bit more like how Principle Skinner ended up in the military. "I could apologize to the old woman, I could go to jail, or I could join the army. If I'd know there was a war on, I probably would've apologized

But why would another officer sponsor Jim Kirk's entrance to the Academy and not his own father? Collision Course set up a very believable scenario as to why Mallory would back Jim Kirk's entrance to the Academy.

Star Trek 2009 made entrance seem no harder than getting on the bus and going to the local grocery store.

From Family Guy:

Construction Worker 1: Hey. My kid got into DeVry.
Construction Worker 2: What'd he do? Open the door?

 

[captcalhoun]

I would have to imagine a 'Fleet Captain' would no longer be in 'Operational Command' of a starship once promoted.

*cough*commodorewesleyontheConstellation*cough*

 

[Captain Robert April]

That'd be Commodore Decker on the Constellation. Bob Wesley was on the Lexington, and considering that Starfleet Command starburst on his tunic, that may've been just for the exercise (in which case, pity the captain of the Lexington when they got back to the starbase; "What the hell did you do to my ship!?!").

 

[BillJ]

I would have to imagine a 'Fleet Captain' would no longer be in 'Operational Command' of a starship once promoted.

*cough*commodorewesleyontheConstellation*cough*

It's just a stretch that Pike would be a Fleet Captain and in command of the Enterprise for eleven years.

 

[Nerys Myk]

We also found out that he was a big influence on Kirk Prime. "Collision Course" didn't depict anything like young Kirk joining Starfleet because he was inspired by his father's general awesomeness. As I recall, it was a bit more like how Principle Skinner ended up in the military. "I could apologize to the old woman, I could go to jail, or I could join the army. If I'd know there was a war on, I probably would've apologized

But why would another officer sponsor Jim Kirk's entrance to the Academy and not his own father? Collision Course set up a very believable scenario as to why Mallory would back Jim Kirk's entrance to the Academy.

Star Trek 2009 made entrance seem no harder than getting on the bus and going to the local grocery store.

From Family Guy:

Construction Worker 1: Hey. My kid got into DeVry.
Construction Worker 2: What'd he do? Open the door?

Comes off as a "special case" to me. Starfleet Hero father + off the charts test scores + Pike's endorsement = Entrance under special circumstances. Though I'm sure there was some paperwork to fill out, but spending any amount of time watching Pike and Kirk filling out forms on screen would not have been the best use of the films running time.

( insert joke on how that would have been better than what we got here)

 

[Christopher]

But why would another officer sponsor Jim Kirk's entrance to the Academy and not his own father?

Maybe to avoid nepotism, sponsorship is required to be by someone other than family.

Star Trek 2009 made entrance seem no harder than getting on the bus and going to the local grocery store.

Not at all. It was Pike who invited Kirk to get on that "bus" and enroll in Starfleet, so it stands to reason that Pike was Kirk's sponsor in that timeline.

 

[JD]

I just assumed that Pike pulled strings to get Kirk into Academy.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Star Trek 2009 made entrance seem no harder than getting on the bus and going to the local grocery store.

We saw very different movies, it seems. If they had have slowed this movie down with all the unnecessary scenes of Kirk doing entry tests, Kirk filling out PADDs of "paperwork", Kirk studying, they'd have lost more of the audience that just you. There's enough in the dialogue and set up to suggest that getting into the Academy isn't easy, but that Kirk had already demonstrated aptitude and had chosen to ignore his original invitation to enroll.

Diehard fans have already scene Wesley and Nog getting into the Academy. Did we really need to see Kirk's entry via a montage of studying scenes just to prove that Pike's belief was justified?

 

[kkozoriz1]

I disagree with that assessment. Kirk was set up as the bad boy. There's no sign that he'd already been offerer a place at the Academy.

"Because I looked up your file while
you were drooling on the floor.

Your aptitude tests are off the charts, so what is it?

You like being the only genius level
repeat-offender in the mid-west?"

Aptitude tests, not enrollment exams. It sounds like Star Fleet can access education files whenever they like. Besides, Kirk's 25. Wouldn't he have been applying for the Academy about 7-8 years earlier? There's no indication that he's show any thought of joining Starfleet. The movie shows him as a juvenile delinquent at about 12 and a drunken bar fighter at 25. Pike meets him at the bar, recognizes his name and offers him a spot at the Academy. No application. No tests. He just shows up and he's in. And three years later he's still pretty much the same frat boy that he's always been.

That's my single biggest complaint I have with the movie. It gave me a Kirk that I don't like. There's none of the charm of Kirk prime.

 

[Therin of Andor]

That's my single biggest complaint I have with the movie. It gave me a Kirk that I don't like. There's none of the charm of Kirk prime.

And that's the idea. We aren't supposed to like him. The world is full of bright kids who, due to fate, don't reach their potential.

And how do you know for sure that these weren't Starfleet Academy aptitude tests? They were supposed to spoonfeed us the adjective "Starfleet"?

 

[JarodRussell]

That's my single biggest complaint I have with the movie. It gave me a Kirk that I don't like. There's none of the charm of Kirk prime.

And that's the idea. We aren't supposed to like him. The world is full of bright kids who, due to fate, don't reach their potential.

And how do you know for sure that these weren't Starfleet Academy aptitude tests? They were supposed to spoonfeed us the adjective "Starfleet"?

We are not supposed to like Captain Kirk?

 

[kkozoriz1]

That's my single biggest complaint I have with the movie. It gave me a Kirk that I don't like. There's none of the charm of Kirk prime.

And that's the idea. We aren't supposed to like him. The world is full of bright kids who, due to fate, don't reach their potential.

And how do you know for sure that these weren't Starfleet Academy aptitude tests? They were supposed to spoonfeed us the adjective "Starfleet"?

Yeah, that's what I want from Star Trek, to not like the characters.

Are we supposed to assume things that aren't in the movie? Kirk showed not interest in joining Starfleet on his own. He was shown as rebellious both times we saw him before he was shamed into joining by Pike bringing up his father. Why would he apply and then go right back to being a delinquent?

 

[BillJ]

Besides, Kirk's 25.

Twenty-two when he enters the Academy in this timeline, twenty-five when he takes command of the Enterprise (roughly).

 

[Therin of Andor]

Why would he apply and then go right back to being a delinquent?

I'm a teacher. I have met plenty of elementary-level kids who are extremely bright, go off to high school, continue to get excellent grades without seeming to study at all, sit all the aptitude tests, ace them, then return to a life of delinquency.

We are not supposed to like Captain Kirk?

As a boy? No. But you're supposed to grow to like him as the movie (and future movies) unfold. I guess some fans have chosen to keep disliking him.

 

[kkozoriz1]

I can imagine Kirk doing well in school even if he's not a great student. I can't imagine him applying to Starfleet. He shows no interest in Starfleet, dismissing Pike when he first brings it up. He may ace the tests but that doesn't mean he ever showed any interest in joining up.

Where are we supposed to start liking him in the movie? He's pretty much the same person when he's in the bar as he is when he's promoted at the end. years ago I worked as a bartender and met many people that were much like Kirk. Even when they weren't drunk, they were jerks. I'd like him if I was given a reason to. I just didn't see any in the movie.

 

[JarodRussell]

We are not supposed to like Captain Kirk?

As a boy? No. But you're supposed to grow to like him as the movie (and future movies) unfold. I guess some fans have chosen to keep disliking him.

Had no other choice, since he doesn't change in the movie.

 

[BillJ]

As a boy? No. But you're supposed to grow to like him as the movie (and future movies) unfold. I guess some fans have chosen to keep disliking him.

Still waiting for them to portray him in a positive light.

 

[Captain Robert April]

Oh, but that's not what's kewl these days, man! He's gotta be a rebel and a rule breaker and a horndog so that the loser kids of today can indentify with him!

Of course, Roddenberry had a different, rather old-fashioned idea. He wanted characters that the viewer would aspire to be like, (y'now, heroes?) not characters that were screwups so that the screwups in the audience could "identify with them". If that's all you're after, watch "Jersey Shore".

 

[BillJ]

Oh, but that's not what's kewl these days, man! He's gotta be a rebel and a rule breaker and a horndog so that the loser kids of today can indentify with him!

Of course, Roddenberry had a different, rather old-fashioned idea. He wanted characters that the viewer would aspire to be like, (y'now, heroes?) not characters that were screwups so that the screwups in the audience could "identify with them". If that's all you're after, watch "Jersey Shore".

I've always been of the opinion that the reboot that was done by Abrams and Company was going to be a two-part experiment (at least for me).

The first part has failed for me as a stand-alone story. Can they salvage the first film with the second? Will the evolution of the characters in the second film make me go back and re-examine the first and go 'that's what they were trying to accomplish!'? To me, Jim Kirk is at the center of it all. Can they salvage him and make the hi-jinks from the first film look respectable after the fact?

YMMV.

 

[kkozoriz1]

Based on the comments I've read by Kurtzman and Orci about writing the sequel I'd say no.