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Transition and explanation of SNW into TOS technology

We're Trekkies, we're the most hardcore of Nerds.
We all wouldn't be on this forum discussing the most detailed of minutiae if we were "just a consumer".
We are still consumers and Paramount doesn't owe us a thing.

Doesn't mean we have to accept whatever their PR talking head states as true because their own Show Runners & Creators state otherwise within their own show.
Correct. But inventing convoluted explanations served no useful purpose from an entertainment aspect. It doesn't aid us in our enjoyment, and actively creates inflexibility to appreciate what is intended by the artists.

That's why this aspect is so dangerous; it says that art must be subjected to popularity in order to say whatever we think it says. So, the artist becomes a liar if the fans declare them so.

Not a very happy relationship to me.

For me, as a student of history, knowledge is changing a lot. It's why Roddenberry's idea of TOS being a dramatic recreation of Kirk's logs appeals to me.

We're not going to get history perfectly right and saying every change is a new timeline is unnecessarily convoluted to me. It ignores the real world aspects of getting things wrong
 
Again, they own the intellectual property. It's pretty damn hard for them to be wrong. And when has it been changed? Outside of the rare example of The Animated Series bouncing around being canonical or not, the official position has always been that whatever is on screen is part of the canon, even the contradictions.

Now do books and comics.
 
For me, as a student of history, knowledge is changing a lot. It's why Roddenberry's idea of TOS being a dramatic recreation of Kirk's logs appeals to me.

The Discoverse was introduced as a "reimagine" of Star Trek. Why assume the original existing visuals are invalidated?
 
We are still consumers and Paramount doesn't owe us a thing.
Then when the next time some Trekkie asks them "What is the Prime Timeline".
Their new answer should be, who cares, it's a show.
Learn to enjoy the show.

Correct. But inventing convoluted explanations served no useful purpose from an entertainment aspect. It doesn't aid us in our enjoyment, and actively creates inflexibility to appreciate what is intended by the artists.
Continuity is part of my enjoyment for Trek.
For as long as Trek is, it has a pretty good level of continuity given how long it is and how many staff have worked on it.
It's not perfect, but it's pretty damn good all things considered.

That's why this aspect is so dangerous; it says that art must be subjected to popularity in order to say whatever we think it says. So, the artist becomes a liar if the fans declare them so.

Not a very happy relationship to me.
Okay, but I care less about popularity and more about internal in-universe logic & consistency.

For me, as a student of history, knowledge is changing a lot. It's why Roddenberry's idea of TOS being a dramatic recreation of Kirk's logs appeals to me.

We're not going to get history perfectly right and saying every change is a new timeline is unnecessarily convoluted to me. It ignores the real world aspects of getting things wrong
I'm with Data on the Quantum Timelines and how every action splits into another possible timeline.

Since that was proven to exist, I can't just rule it out and put the genie back in the bottlle.

Whether or not they get things Right/Wrong, either way; it'll fracture the timeline into a new Quantum Reality.
 
The Universe doesn't have to follow your strict interpretation of the company line.
Fandom doesn't have to follow or care about what Paramount says either.
It works both ways.

The simplest solution is not to take an antagonistic approach to the current creators, but to very carefully follow what they say. That is something that most fans don't do.

It is all too easy to hear a statement of canon policy and pretend it says what you want it to say or otherwise approach it with no depth of consideration. After all, everyone tends to want validation of their preferences, be it the old shows or the new. The absence of validation gnaws at some folks, leading them to ignore or reinterpret what doesn't validate their beliefs. They then have to convince others of that intellectual dishonesty for validation by proxy.

Canon, however, is not shaped by consensus. The "company line" is the final arbiter, a third-party point of view. Modern transmedia marketing PR has cheapened the concept as entertainment companies seek to maximize sales of licensed material also, but the fact remains that the owners/creators get to decide what is valid in the universe they create.

In the case of Star Trek, that tends to be the purview of the executive producer for all the shows . . . Kurtzman, in the present case. He and those under him have made it abundantly clear that the new "Star Trek Universe" / "Prime Timeline" they've created includes the previous Original Universe shows and films and is a "reimagine" of them.

It is thus pointless to argue that the new universe, explicitly a combination of the previous on-screen canon plus things that were previously not, should come to resemble the old. It does not have to, and, even if they end up making it look the same, it is objectively a new thing . . . but the official new thing.

If you want your old Original Universe, you can of course keep it. If you want the "Prime Timeline", then you get to have it all.

Isn't validation for all the best outcome?
 
The simplest solution is not to take an antagonistic approach to the current creators, but to very carefully follow what they say. That is something that most fans don't do.

It is all too easy to hear a statement of canon policy and pretend it says what you want it to say or otherwise approach it with no depth of consideration. After all, everyone tends to want validation of their preferences, be it the old shows or the new. The absence of validation gnaws at some folks, leading them to ignore or reinterpret what doesn't validate their beliefs. They then have to convince others of that intellectual dishonesty for validation by proxy.

Canon, however, is not shaped by consensus. The "company line" is the final arbiter, a third-party point of view. Modern transmedia marketing PR has cheapened the concept as entertainment companies seek to maximize sales of licensed material also, but the fact remains that the owners/creators get to decide what is valid in the universe they create.

In the case of Star Trek, that tends to be the purview of the executive producer for all the shows . . . Kurtzman, in the present case. He and those under him have made it abundantly clear that the new "Star Trek Universe" / "Prime Timeline" they've created includes the previous Original Universe shows and films and is a "reimagine" of them.

It is thus pointless to argue that the new universe, explicitly a combination of the previous on-screen canon plus things that were previously not, should come to resemble the old. It does not have to, and, even if they end up making it look the same, it is objectively a new thing . . . but the official new thing.

If you want your old Original Universe, you can of course keep it. If you want the "Prime Timeline", then you get to have it all.

Isn't validation for all the best outcome?
Then they should just make it far more clear than have contradictory messaging between what the PR folks state & what is shown on screen.

If they want the new Modified Time-Line to become the "New Prime Time-Line", just state that it is thanks to Temporal War Shenanigans and that Tech has changed because of it.

That would explain everything and we're watching a "New Prime Time-Line" thanks to all that Timey-Wimey Temporal War stuff.

Being honest is the best policy instead of trying to just claim "We're Re-Imaginging Things", and it's all the same stuff as TOS.

Don't insult the fans intelligence, then you don't have conflict.

Just be honest.
 
Then when the next time some Trekkie asks them "What is the Prime Timeline".
Their new answer should be, who cares, it's a show.
Learn to enjoy the show.
Agreed.
Continuity is part of my enjoyment for Trek.
For as long as Trek is, it has a pretty good level of continuity given how long it is and how many staff have worked on it.
It's not perfect, but it's pretty damn good all things considered.
Only if one ignores the Inconsistencies. And those are rife through TOS. The production teams left it to the fans and didn't care about all the details.
 
I don't watch Star Trek for technical treatises that explain every last theory and rivet, I watch it for entertaining writing and acting.
I guess I fall in the other camp.

Explain everything technical & in-universe logic along with background lore.

If it's Entertaining Writing & Acting, cool beans.

But otherwise, I want all the "Nuts & Bolts".

I'm a "VERY DETAILED Oriented" person.

Even down to silly things like StarFleet Proprietary Screw Fasteners.

Agreed.
Only if one ignores the Inconsistencies. And those are rife through TOS. The production teams left it to the fans and didn't care about all the details.
I'm sure later writing staff post TOS must've took care of some of those issues.
 
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Am I remembering wrong, or have you mentioned that you've never watched TOS?
I've watched pretty much "Every Single Trek" but 'TOS & TAS'.
Yes I've seen most of the TOS Movies. Not to it's entirety, I'm missing a few bits within each movie, but I've seen the majority of it when it was on re-runs on TV.
 
I don't watch Star Trek for technical treatises that explain every last theory and rivet, I watch it for entertaining writing and acting.

Part of the reason Star Trek became such a cultural staple is because it was largely able to withstand scrutiny, rewarding those who paid attention to the intricate details. This only increased the entertainment value and desire for rewatching.

Roddenberry's memo-stated rule was "believability". This required consistency, and Star Trek provided more of it than most any other science fiction setting for decades . . . even as folks like Arthur C. Clarke threw in the towel on continuity within his 2001 novel series.

(Cue the "James R. Kirk har-dee-har" folks.)
 
I've watched pretty much "Every Single Trek" but 'TOS & TAS'.
Yes I've seen most of the TOS Movies. Not to it's entirety, I'm missing a few bits within each movie, but I've seen the majority of it when it was on re-runs on TV.
Kind of hard to claim you're some kinda ultra detail oriented super fan when you haven't even seen the most important and significant series in the entire franchise. :lol:
 
Kind of hard to claim you're some kinda ultra detail oriented super fan when you haven't even seen the most important and significant series in the entire franchise. :lol:
It's on the "To Watch List".

Sorry, but TOS was created & aired before I existed.

TNG was my jam as a kid since I watched it as it aired from the Pilot Episode.
 
Part of the reason Star Trek became such a cultural staple is because it was largely able to withstand scrutiny, rewarding those who paid attention to the intricate details. This only increased the entertainment value and desire for rewatching.

Roddenberry's memo-stated rule was "believability". This required consistency, and Star Trek provided more of it than most any other science fiction setting for decades . . . even as folks like Arthur C. Clarke threw in the towel on continuity within his 2001 novel series.

(Cue the "James R. Kirk har-dee-har" folks.)
The details are great for filling out the background, but it's not the reason the show exists and remains popular after 60 years. To quote the TOS writer's guide:

Tell your story about people, not about science and gadgetry. Joe Friday doesn't stop to explain the mechanics of his .38 before he uses it; Kildare never did a monologue about the theory of anesthetics; Matt Dillon never identifies and discusses the breed of his horse before he rides off on it.

And also, in relation to how much SF terminology to use in the scripts:

Generally, the minimum which is sufficient to maintain the flavor of the show and encourage believability. Our guide could be DRAGNET or DR. KILDARE, both of which use terminology which the audience did not have to understand fully.

Sorry, but TOS was created & aired before I existed.
So? I wasn't born until two decades after TOS premiered, and I've managed to see it multiple times.
 
It's on the "To Watch List".

Sorry, but TOS was created & aired before I existed.

TNG was my jam as a kid since I watched it as it aired from the Pilot Episode.
There's no rule that says you have to have seen everything to be a Trekkie, but if you're going to make some grandiose claims about your knowledge of the franchise, you kinda need to have seen the series that started it all.

TOS ended 15 years before I was born, but you can bet your ass I've seen TOS more times than I can count.
 
There's no rule that says you have to have seen everything to be a Trekkie, but if you're going to make some grandiose claims about your knowledge of the franchise, you kinda need to have seen the series that started it all.
Well, that's the state I'm in, so it is what it is.
I'll get to TOS when I get to it.
My knowledge is still pretty damn huge considering how much Trek came after TOS.

TOS ended 15 years before I was born, but you can bet your ass I've seen TOS more times than I can count.
I'm happy for you.
 
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