TOS movies announced for Blu-ray !!

[trevanian]

But too often the consumer electronics industry replaces a better quality format with a lesser quality one in order to gain convenience (can you say iPod?). Let's not try to make this same mistake again.
[/B].

The way you discuss the electronics issue is kind of the way I perceive the visual effects industry for the last decade. They've sacrificed image quality in favor of processes that let them create greater quantity of shots, by and large by doing nearly everything CG, instead of mixing with motion control and other techniques as appropriate. Here's hoping TDK and a few others will turn that trend back a bit ... I find it strange that visual effects from 1997 (and '84 and '68) movies are the ones I reference when discussing really good spaceship shots, rather than any from the 21st century outside of SOLARIS.

 

[GodThingFormerly]

(either due to their relationship with Paramount or just out of their own insecurity over the project.)

Fein and Matessino were apparently hoping that PHE would engage Sharpline Arts to produce the subsequent TOS film DVD sets, possibly even to the extent of letting them digitally rotoscope out ILM's Enterprise miniature photography and replace it with Foundation Imaging's Lightwave model. However. the incompetence and misconduct of Sharpline on the DE project - and Rick Berman's complaints about how Fein was pestering him for months with an offer to roto UPNterprise's NX-01 over the XCV-330 (MJ's Ringship) in the rec-room alcove scenes for some improbably large fee - obviously rendered such fanciful plans moot.

TGT

 

[Indysolo]

(either due to their relationship with Paramount or just out of their own insecurity over the project.)

Fein and Matessino were apparently hoping that PHE would engage Sharpline Arts to produce the subsequent TOS film DVD sets, possibly even to the extent of letting them digitally rotoscope out ILM's Enterprise miniature photography and replace it with Foundation Imaging's Lightwave model.

And how many shots in TDE did they rotoscope out the old Enterprise with the new one? Where did you pull this story out from?

However. the incompetence and misconduct of Sharpline on the DE project - and Rick Berman's complaints about how Fein was pestering him for months with an offer to roto UPNterprise's NX-01 over the XCV-330 (MJ's Ringship) in the rec-room alcove scenes for some improbably large fee - obviously rendered such fanciful plans moot.

TGT

This is just downright false. Why are you lying now? TDE was finished in August 2000 and Enterprise didn't premiere until September 2001. Why don't you produce one quote from Berman substantiating this? You can provide links and photos to other things, I'd really like to see your source on this little bit of gossip.

To get the quotes started, I'll provide you with one: "David C. Fein, Producer: There was never any plan to change the pictures in the recreation deck."

Neil

 

[GodThingFormerly]

And how many shots in TDE did they rotoscope out the old Enterprise with the new one? Where did you pull this story out from?

The same place where all of my other factoids came from, or did I just get lucky with all of those details (and trailer) I posted back in 2001? The intent was supposedly to recreate the NCC-1701 Refit's opalescent ST:TMP paint scheme for the ILM (and presumably Associates & Ferren) films.

This is just downright false. Why are you lying now? TDE was finished in August 2000 and Enterprise didn't premiere until September 2001.

So? It was common knowledge in early 2001 that ENT would be a prequel series, and Sharpline retained copies of the DE masters on D1 tape so were Berman slimeball enough to agree to Fein's proposal it would have been very easy to make the changes in time for the DVD's scheduled release.

Why don't you produce one quote from Berman substantiating this?

The same reason I don't post documentation showing that the DE's budget was $500,000 as was independently verified by trevanian.

You can provide links and photos to other things, I'd really like to see your source on this little bit of gossip.

You'll just have to take my word for it, but you won't hurt my feelings in the slightest if you don't.

To get the quotes started, I'll provide you with one: "David C. Fein, Producer: There was never any plan to change the pictures in the recreation deck."

Yeah, "never any plans to change the pictures" after Berman told him to take a hike.

TGT

 

[Indysolo]

I'm not taking your word for anything. I knew you couldn't actually present a quote. I don't believe a thing you have to say on this subject, and no one else should either. You are so bitter and angry about this production for some reason that you go completely out of your way to make things up just to discredit it.

Just yesterday you linked to a story that was nothing but rumors and you passed it off as facts (and everything in that was able to be shot down) and now you're posting this nonsense.

Why do you care anyway? This thread is about the Blu-ray version which will be your precious theatrical cut.

Neil

 

[GodThingFormerly]

I'm not taking your word for anything. I knew you couldn't actually present a quote. I don't believe a thing you have to say on this subject, and no one else should either.

Please feel free to add me to your Ignore List and write "TGT is full of crap" in your signature because I've just about had it up to here with your threadfarting into every goddamned ST:TMP-related thread in this forum.

You are so bitter and angry about this production for some reason that you go completely out of your way to make things up just to discredit it.

Well, what can I say? If such is indeed the case it seems to have worked considering that your miserable Sharpline Arts hasn't done squat in the industry in over seven years which as far as Hollywood is concerned may as well be seven millennia. Who knew that some anonymous fan could have such incredible pull in Tinseltown?

Just yesterday you linked to a story that was nothing but rumors and you passed it off as facts (and everything in that was able to be shot down) and now you're posting this nonsense.

Nothing was "shot down", and considering that my link consisted of the word "Unlikely" it shouldn't take a genius to divine that I was being as noncommittal as possible regarding the rumored damage to the camera negatives.

Why do you care anyway? This thread is about the Blu-ray version which will be your precious theatrical cut.

I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I didn't take a dump on Fein, Matessino and Dochterman whenever and however the opportunity arises.

TGT

 

[Indysolo]

If such is indeed the case it seems to have worked considering that your miserable Sharpline Arts hasn't done squat in the industry in over seven years which as far as Hollywood is concerned may as well be seven millennia.

Funny, the Time After Time CD released just last month credits Sharpline Arts for the re-mix in the booklet. Again, where are you getting your facts from?

...I've just about had it up to here with your threadfarting into every goddamned ST:TMP-related thread in this forum.

If you weren't posting bad information all the time I'd probably stay away from them. And I've hardly posted in the line-by-line TMP thread!

Please feel free to add me to your Ignore List and write "TGT is full of crap" in your signature...

My avatar does that for me, thank you very much!

Neil

 

[GodThingFormerly]

Time After Time CD released just last month credits Sharpline Arts for the re-mix in the booklet. Again, where are you getting your facts from?

Their website. But if Sharpline have somehow managed to slither their way back into the sphincter end of the soundtrack CD mastering business than I suppose I should e-mail Fein and Matessino my congratulations.

If you weren't posting bad information all the time I'd probably stay away from them.

If my information was bad somebody here would have called me on it years ago.

And I've hardly posted in the line-by-line TMP thread!

Neither have I. Coincidence? I suspect not.

My avatar does that for me, thank you very much!

I generated that avatar back in 2006 from an image posted on Richard Taylor's website not knowing that it was rendered by Dochterman. The moment I found it was I replaced it so, gee, I guess you really got me there.

TGT

 

[Indysolo]

If my information was bad somebody here would have called me on it years ago.

I have been and will continue to do so. See below.

I generated that avatar back in 2006 from an image posted on Richard Taylor's website not knowing that it was rendered by Dochterman. The moment I found it was I replaced it so, gee, I guess you really got me there.

I did get you there: I'm the one that pointed it out to you (but not before taking a screengrab of it, for posterity)! In this case, I find it amusing that you go out of your way to put down everyone's work on TDE but someone from the original production includes Daren Dochterman's CG Enterprise on their site and you are compelled to make an avatar out of it, not knowing that it's the antithesis of everything that you supposedly stand for. So again, you were wrong and I was there to point it out to you, just like this time.

Neil

 

[GodThingFormerly]

I have been and will continues to do so.

You have never called me on anything. All you've done for the last seven years is regurgitate Fein's self-serving propaganda over and over again which makes you little more than his TrekBBS.com poodle bitch.

I did get you there: I'm the one that pointed it out to you (but not before taking a screengrab of it, for posterity)! In this case, I find it amusing that you go out of your way to put down everyone's work on TDE but someone from the original production includes Daren Dochterman's CG Enterprise on their site and you are compelled to make an avatar out of it, not knowing that it's the antithesis of everything that you supposedly stand for. So again, you were wrong and I was there to point it out to you, just like this time.

Ah, no, it was actually RyanKCR who alerted me via PM to its unfortunate origins. That said, my using the Dochterman render is definitely a faux pas worthy of embarrassment, but it is one I can eventually learn to live with. You, on the other hand, would have put a gun in your mouth decades ago if you were possessed with even the slightest sense of shame.

TGT

 

[Indysolo]

Ah, no, it was actually RyanKCR who alerted me via PM to its unfortunate origins. That said, my using the Dochterman render is definitely a faux pas worthy of embarrassment, but it is one I can eventually learn to live with. You, on the other hand, would have put a gun in your mouth decades ago if you were possessed with even the slightest sense of shame.

Here's the post where I pointed it out to you.

Neil

 

[trevanian]

]
This is just downright false. Why are you lying now? TDE was finished in August 2000 and Enterprise didn't premiere until September 2001.

I can't speak to the rest, but you're way off on this. One plan was to release on jan 7 2001, but the DVD was actually released much later, toward the end of 2001, I think November. I was in California when I heard the 1/7/01 story, and was living in Oregon by the time the disc came out (was in transit on 9/11), so I damned well know your dates are way the hell off (plus isn't there an ENTERPRISE promo on the DE DVD, with plenty of footage?)

And I can speak to the point of Fein being an insecure jerk, based on how he reacted to being contacted about an article on the TMP redon't. Wouldn't even respond directly, instead complained to the publisher about being hounded (if one email and a phone message -- that went unanswered -- is hounding, then somebody needs to rewrite stalker laws.)

 

[Indysolo]

]
This is just downright false. Why are you lying now? TDE was finished in August 2000 and Enterprise didn't premiere until September 2001.

I can't speak to the rest, but you're way off on this. One plan was to release on jan 7 2001, but the DVD was actually released much later, toward the end of 2001, I think November. I was in California when I heard the 1/7/01 story, and was living in Oregon by the time the disc came out (was in transit on 9/11), so I damned well know your dates are way the hell off (plus isn't there an ENTERPRISE promo on the DE DVD, with plenty of footage?)

Kevin, this is from the same page I linked to earlier: "David C. Fein, Producer: There were some discussions about the release occurring on 1/7/01, specifically because of the importance of the NCC-1701 registry on the Enterprise. While the film was completed in August of 2000, the entire release was not ready."

And Enterprise premiered on September 26, 2001.

So are my dates still "way the hell off" or did I actually do a little research before posting?

Neil

 

[Peach Wookiee]

I have been and will continues to do so.

You have never called me on anything. All you've done for the last seven years is regurgitate Fein's self-serving propaganda over and over again which makes you little more than his TrekBBS.com poodle bitch.

I did get you there: I'm the one that pointed it out to you (but not before taking a screengrab of it, for posterity)! In this case, I find it amusing that you go out of your way to put down everyone's work on TDE but someone from the original production includes Daren Dochterman's CG Enterprise on their site and you are compelled to make an avatar out of it, not knowing that it's the antithesis of everything that you supposedly stand for. So again, you were wrong and I was there to point it out to you, just like this time.

Ah, no, it was actually RyanKCR who alerted me via PM to its unfortunate origins. That said, my using the Dochterman render is definitely a faux pas worthy of embarrassment, but it is one I can eventually learn to live with. You, on the other hand, would have put a gun in your mouth decades ago if you were possessed with even the slightest sense of shame.

TGT

TGT, you have earned yourself an infraction for that namecalling and telling IndySolo to off himself.

 

[trevanian]

]
This is just downright false. Why are you lying now? TDE was finished in August 2000 and Enterprise didn't premiere until September 2001.

I can't speak to the rest, but you're way off on this. One plan was to release on jan 7 2001, but the DVD was actually released much later, toward the end of 2001, I think November. I was in California when I heard the 1/7/01 story, and was living in Oregon by the time the disc came out (was in transit on 9/11), so I damned well know your dates are way the hell off (plus isn't there an ENTERPRISE promo on the DE DVD, with plenty of footage?)

Kevin, this is from the same page I linked to earlier: "David C. Fein, Producer: There were some discussions about the release occurring on 1/7/01, specifically because of the importance of the NCC-1701 registry on the Enterprise. While the film was completed in August of 2000, the entire release was not ready."

And Enterprise premiered on September 26, 2001.

So are my dates still "way the hell off" or did I actually do a little research before posting?

Neil

The DVD didn't come out till AFTER lil ENT debuted, so that is what I'm talking about in the main. If you say SharpLine and Foundation were finished with their work on the MOVIE part of the disk by august 2000 (roughly a year prior to release), and the rest of the time was spent jerking around on disk 2, I'd think that only slightly likely (regardless of what Fein said.)

My reason: because it was after that when I contacted Foundation about doing a DE article (october or early nov 2000, since I stopped writing for them right after Thanksgiving), and SharpLine as well. There was no indication from Foundation to me that their end was finished (they still had the models there, that Ernie guy who did the vfx on FROM EARTH TO THE MOON and DUNEtv saw them there that fall), so I would say your dates are suspect because you're relying on a faulty (if primary) source of information.

And to be fair, TGT has often cited Richard Taylor as a great source of info, but while there is truth to that, some of Taylor's stuff has been pretty self-serving, too, and perhaps not entirely accurate.

 

[Indysolo]

Kevin, I'm not talking about when the DVD came out. TGT alleged that David C. Fein was asking Rick Berman for a picture of the NX-01 to put into the rec deck scene. That doesn't make any sense if the movie was done over a year before Enterprise debuted. There wasn't an NX-01 yet and there wasn't a show called Enterprise, so why would anyone ask for something that didn't exist, especially when they are on record as saying there were no plans for changing the photos in the rec deck?

And I'm not the one saying the movie was done in August 2000, I'm providing a quote from the producer who should know better than anyone when the movie was completed. This isn't even open for debate. The facts are right here. They speak for themselves. If you can't figure that out it's not my problem. The very first answer says, "While the film was completed in August of 2000, the entire release was not ready." There's nothing you can say that can change that.

Neil

 

[trevanian]

Kevin, I'm not talking about when the DVD came out. TGT alleged that David C. Fein was asking Rick Berman for a picture of the NX-01 to put into the rec deck scene. That doesn't make any sense if the movie was done over a year before Enterprise debuted. There wasn't an NX-01 yet and there wasn't a show called Enterprise, so why would anyone ask for something that didn't exist, especially when they are on record as saying there were no plans for changing the photos in the rec deck?

And I'm not the one saying the movie was done in August 2000, I'm providing a quote from the producer who should know better than anyone when the movie was completed. This isn't even open for debate. The facts are right here. They speak for themselves. If you can't figure that out it's not my problem. The very first answer says, "While the film was completed in August of 2000, the entire release was not ready." There's nothing you can say that can change that.

Neil

Okay, I read through the whole thing. Most of it looks legit. But ... he's still spouting about how the video releases didn't match the look of the theatrical, and that they were getting the colors back to what it was in the theater, and I KNOW that's horseshit, because the movie I saw several times looks exactly like that 1980 TMP calendar, and those colors and that lighting (esp in the Kirk McCoy bridge shot) is blechhh and any warming up Fein did was putting something in that wasn't in any print I saw of it (and I actually saw a print in spring of 80 that hadn't had the 'printing down' done, one that was much brighter than the rest, and that one still had the blech colors.

I know that all sounds like a detour, but it points up how hard it is for me to accept any of what he says at face value. Maybe you can find Dochterman or somebody from Foundation who remembers the film being finished in 8/00, and that would help (I'm NOT suggesting turning this into a crazy hunt, it isn't worth the effort), but burning in an nx-01 on the rec wall could have been done after the film was finished anyway.

And rather than Fein battling Berman, I thought it was that Braga was hassling people trying to get the nx into the rec scene, and that Wise refused. Or is that another legend?

 

[Indysolo]

Here's another way of looking at it. The whole concept of The Director's Edition was to finish a movie that was made 20 years earlier. The philosophy was "we're not going to do anything that wasn't possible in 1979, we're just using different tools to accomplish it". Whether you think it was a success or not is not the issue, and I won't debate that here. What I will say though is that while there wasn't an NX-01 in August 2000, there certainly wasn't one in 1979. So with that in mind and knowing the philosophy of the creative team in 2000, it would make even less sense to want to insert that ship into the movie. TGT's allegation just doesn't make sense from any rational point of view. The dates don't line up and it's at odds with the goal of The Director's Edition.

Neil

 

[ATimson]

Umm...which "effects" are you referring to? The only film which had SD effects added was the TMP Director's Edition. The other special editions (2 & 6) had only film inserts, I believe.

I thought that the changes to the mindmeld scene in 6 involved opticals. Been a while since I saw it, though.

 

[JDF]

(Staying out of the raging battle above your post...)

Umm...which "effects" are you referring to? The only film which had SD effects added was the TMP Director's Edition. The other special editions (2 & 6) had only film inserts, I believe.

I thought that the changes to the mindmeld scene in 6 involved opticals. Been a while since I saw it, though.

It's been a while since I last saw it too, but it is possible that if fades were used at the inserts - even quick fades - then it likely would have been done in the video domain.

That means that a physical print wouldn't exist with those fades - and nothing to use for the hi-def transfer. It would have to be recreated all over again in the HD domain.

Or, was it a quick flash transitioning between the original bridge scenes and the inserts? I can't remember now.