TOS most sexist episodes/moments

[Hermiod]

^I'm solely referring to TOS here.

The fact is that if you are going to complain about the portrayal of women in a show set in the 22nd century but made to fairly liberal 1960s standards then you must also see issues with the way the men are portrayed - as disposable cannon fodder who are rarely even mourned. This is an issue with television that continues today and we've yet to see any real improvement.

 

[Pauln6]

^I'm solely referring to TOS here.

The fact is that if you are going to complain about the portrayal of women in a show set in the 22nd century but made to fairly liberal 1960s standards then you must also see issues with the way the men are portrayed - as disposable cannon fodder who are rarely even mourned. This is an issue with television that continues today and we've yet to see any real improvement.

I love that cheeky scene where it's the yeoman who ends up dead instead of the security guard. It was a deliberate attempt to toy with our expectations but you're right it wouldn't be so noticeable if we hadn't come to expect the men to die quite so readily.

 

[Lieut. Arex]

Though out of necessity, there was an all-female team in "The Lorelei Signal", so there are quite a few female security officers aboard.

 

[Hermiod]

Though out of necessity, there was an all-female team in "The Lorelei Signal", so there are quite a few female security officers aboard.

Remind me, how many died within seconds of beaming down ?

Not to mention how the episode portrays the standard sexist TV trope of a problem - usually involving attractive women - that only affects men. Enterprise did one of those too as did Stargate SG-1.

 

[Trek_princess]

Star Trek TOS keeps getting a bum rap from feminists who can't see the HISTORY and the time the show represented.

It's not fair to say that feminists don't understand the historical context of the 1960's. I think they do. Even if we accept that TOS is a product of its time (which of course it is, it would have to be) and even if we celebrate it's progressiveness, it's still interesting and useful to discuss the inherent sexism, talk about why it was there, and analyze the social atmosphere/thought processes behind the sexism.

Just because a feminist complains about "Mudd's Women" or "Turnabout Intruder" doesn't mean s/he doesn't have a socio-historical grasp of TOS.

 

[Lieut. Arex]

Though out of necessity, there was an all-female team in "The Lorelei Signal", so there are quite a few female security officers aboard.

Remind me, how many died within seconds of beaming down ?

None as the only episode of the series to portray (offscreen) any fatalities was "The Slaver Weapon".

Not to mention how the episode portrays the standard sexist TV trope of a problem - usually involving attractive women - that only affects men. Enterprise did one of those too as did Stargate SG-1.

My comment was solely in response to Pauln6's recalling only Lt. Nored from TAS when numerous others were show in another episode, regardless of its plot elements be they presumed sexist or otherwise.

 

[Pauln6]

Star Trek TOS keeps getting a bum rap from feminists who can't see the HISTORY and the time the show represented.

Just because a feminist complains about "Mudd's Women" or "Turnabout Intruder" doesn't mean s/he doesn't have a socio-historical grasp of TOS.

Bless her, she used big words. Now run along honey and fetch me some coffee and food cubes.

I think Mad Men is gloriously, self-consciously aware of the typical male/female dynamic in the sixties. For all its pretensions, TOS isn't too far above what we see in that show.

I think in UK we fared a little better with our sexist sci fi e.g. compare Colonel Deering from Buck Rogers to Jenna or Cally from Blakes 7 in the late seventies & early eighties. US shows seemed more obsessed with glamorising their female characters.

 

[Pauln6]

Though out of necessity, there was an all-female team in "The Lorelei Signal", so there are quite a few female security officers aboard.

Cool. I haven't seen most of TAS. Shame that the all-female team had to be a plot contrivance but at least they tried!

 

[Kegg]

The fact is that if you are going to complain about the portrayal of women in a show set in the 22nd century but made to fairly liberal 1960s standards then you must also see issues with the way the men are portrayed -

Obviously. Men are seen as viable and indispensable in of course ways women could never manage to be, it's the flip side of sexism. Reason we see a lot of men die on the show is because, of course, only men can be security guards. There were actually a fair number of expendable female yellowshirts in TNG, but what of that, hm?

 

[Hermiod]

^It shows that TNG didn't place a premium on female lives or devalue males, and quite rightly so.

 

[Captrek]

As far as I can recall, we have yet to see an all-female security team, in spite of the numerous examples of all-male teams.

You know what would be awesome? If we had all-female security teams, and the chief of security, named Charlie, was only heard over intercom and never appeared on camera.

 

[DevilEyes]

As far as I can recall, we have yet to see an all-female security team, in spite of the numerous examples of all-male teams.

You know what would be awesome? If we had all-female security teams, and the chief of security, named Charlie, was only heard over intercom and never appeared on camera.

Oh yeah, Charlie's Angels - that's how some people imagine female empowerment - a bunch of hot kickass women... working for an unseen, godlike man.

 

[Captrek]

As far as I can recall, we have yet to see an all-female security team, in spite of the numerous examples of all-male teams.

You know what would be awesome? If we had all-female security teams, and the chief of security, named Charlie, was only heard over intercom and never appeared on camera.

Oh yeah, Charlie's Angels - that's how some people imagine female empowerment - a bunch of hot kickass women... working for an unseen, godlike man.

I forgot to mention that when they’re not occupied with security duties, they serve as lifeguards.

 

[skylark14]

The one that jolted me the most on first viewing as an adolescent was the scene in Bread and Circuses where Kirk apparently beds Drucilla, who he knows is a slave who has been "ordered to please" him. Then, smirking, he tells the others "they threw me a few curves." This just seemed so out of character for the man who always seemed compelled to free humans whenever he found them enslaved in other episodes.

Well, for all Kirk knew he had only a few more hours to live...so what the hell.

Here's an anlogy: you're on a strict diet and then you're sentenced to die. What would you like for a last meal? Hmm...pizza with all of my favourite toppings. Screw the diet.

Point taken but doesn't work for me. He's still acting out of character as much as the crew members often do in the following season. For one thing, facing death, it seems he should be more himself morally, not less himself. We've seen him topple whole civilizations because man (presumably woman too) MUST BE FREE. Return of the Archons, The Apple, Taste of Armageddon. She seems to even be wearing a chain around her neck. I always look for acceptable rationalizations when my suspension of disbelief falters. At first I thought he was going to manipulate her with his "wiles" as he did other women when his ship was in peril, but it turns out he didn't use her to recover the communicator after all. So it was blatantly gratuitous. Regarding the pizza analogy, I see it more like this: lifelong pacifist/vegetarian (or in Kirk's case upholder of liberty for all humanoids) receives last meal in form of defenseless lamb and sharp knife for killing/skinning and stewing (receives helpless slave woman under orders to obey him). Pacifist/vegetarian suddenly has change of heart, kills, cooks and eats gentle lamb. Passionate humanitarian (Kirk) selfishly accepts slave labor and later laughs about it.

I will say I'm the only person I know that seems to see this scene in this way. Most people I know do appear to find it funny. Is no one else squeamish about our hero's actions in this episode?

 

[Christopher]

^I do think Kirk bedding Drusilla is gratuitous and out of character. Sure, the script tried to mollify it by having Kirk resist (though out of the belief that it's a ploy by the proconsul rather than out of any overt moral qualms) and making Drusilla the one who takes the initiative; but that's hollow, since a slave can never be truly capable of giving uncoerced consent. It was a very inappropriate scene, and the fact that it's in a Roddenberry script tends to undermine the notion that Roddenberry was progressive in his portrayal of women.

 

[Hermiod]

As far as I can recall, we have yet to see an all-female security team, in spite of the numerous examples of all-male teams.

You know what would be awesome? If we had all-female security teams, and the chief of security, named Charlie, was only heard over intercom and never appeared on camera.

Oh yeah, Charlie's Angels - that's how some people imagine female empowerment - a bunch of hot kickass women... working for an unseen, godlike man.

No, that's how some people imagine a group of good looking women being given an excuse to wear various 'interesting' outfits every week. Charlie's Angels is as much about equality or empowerment as Twilight is. At least they wore clothes.

 

[DevilEyes]

Charlie's Angels is as much about equality or empowerment as Twilight is.

LOL That's really impressive, is it...

 

[Hermiod]

^I'm not sure how empowering it is to die seconds after beaming down to an alien planet, either.

If people want to focus on the female characters fashion choices or easily misunderstood lines from a crazy person, that's up to them, I suppose.

 

[Pauln6]

I think a degree of unwillingness to show violence against women has led to shortage of women in 'expendable' roles in more recent Trek. Of course if more women felt empowered to take up self defence because they saw capable female security officers more often perhaps fewer men would feel inclined to victimise women and violence against women would be less of a concern.

Having said that, I've never felt the need to rip my shirt, get into fights, and snog a woman with green hair and a space bikini so perhaps I'm overstating the influence of Trek (Mae Jemison notwithstanding).

 

[Hermiod]

^That's not a Star Trek thing, it's a media thing. It shows that, however, that society in Star Trek still embraces the same concepts of inequality that mean that American women are ineligible for the draft.

There are other issues - Kirk, through choice or not, spends a considerable amount of time wearing a torn shirt or no shirt at all. There's one instance where McCoy needs to give him an injection so he tears the sleeve of Kirk's shirt, in full view of the rest of the bridge crew. Can you imagine him doing that to Uhura or Janice Rand ?

Perhaps he did and that's why he's left the service and looks like a hobo by the time TMP comes around. Perhaps he was drummed out for sexual harassment.