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TNG changes to TOS

Of course a fan could have trouble reconciling this with how it "should have" been presented in the story, but it's a TV production first and foremost and fans just have to deal with that fact.

It just goes to show that the idea really wasn't thought all the way thru. Likely it would have been better for the character and production to keep LaForge on the bridge.

Did we ever see him in command of the Enterprise again after season one?
 
Bendii Syndrome
(Spoilers)

One change to an Original Series character - Sarek, specifically - still gives me pause. Sarek is probably the most dignified and regal character in the franchise and yet, TNG re-introduces him to the series as being inflicted with Alzheimer's. I have very mixed feelings about this for various reasons, a few of which I will try to explain. First, Mark Lenard had potential for being a recurring guest star, which wasn't even open to being explored, at all, and this was a real loss to the series. And though finding out that Sarek likes Mozart was an interesting addition to the character, the ILM tear Sarek sheds during Data's solo violin performance is risible. :vulcan: :rommie:

The show does make enough of a fuss about Sarek's importance so that someone unfamiliar with the character can sympathise with his downfall, but it's really Picard's deep admiration and respect for Sarek that makes it play, because of his Vulcan "coldness." And after the Mind Meld, it's clever in using the Captain to express aspects and inner needs of the Ambassador, but Mark Lenard's not given much of anything to do. He's playing RICHARD III, but it's being expressed for him by Sir Patrick Stewart. It's clearly a Picard show and this aspect almost completely overwhelms the Sarek guest appearance. But when Beverly reaches out to the emotionally devistated Picard and says, "I'm right here, Jean-Luc. I'm not going anywhere," it's a really beautiful moment and one of my favourites involving Bev.

Nevertheless, the introduction of Vulcan Alzheimer's is interesting, especially considering how this particular species is so heavily immersed in mind games, with always maintaining emotional control, mind melds, the transferring katras and the like. So, Bendii Syndrome is a cool concept, it works on several levels, including making commentary on aging, but how it was applied here could've stood some scrutiny. This wasn't the way to introduce Sarek to TNG fans who didn't watch or really get into TOS. Sarek should've had a couple of strong episodes first, so when he does get hit with dementia, it's more appropriately impactful.

Got to disagree here. It has to be on Picard to carry Sarek's role if we're to believe that Bendii Syndrome is such a horrible thing. If we get scenes of super stoicism from Lenard then we're not going to believe in the credibility of this horrible disease.

I think that his true character was accurately conveyed through his rage and the brief moments that we saw of him at peace.
 
Not all species differentiate populations by color.

Species with the same hair/fur covering as humans do. It's basically based on sunlight exposure. Subterranean folks like the Aenar would be very pale.

On the same note, I don't get why everyone thinks the green Andorian that Lal saw was a bad thing. It's like saying that if she viewed a Black person on her monitor, "Don't they know that humans are white?"
 
Of course a fan could have trouble reconciling this with how it "should have" been presented in the story, but it's a TV production first and foremost and fans just have to deal with that fact.

It just goes to show that the idea really wasn't thought all the way thru. Likely it would have been better for the character and production to keep LaForge on the bridge.

Did we ever see him in command of the Enterprise again after season one?

Sadly, no.

smh :thumbdown:...
 
I know that is likely what they were trying to telegraph, but the uniforms were stupid and terrible looking. Which is why they ended up changing them. I am not concerned with they "why" they did it. They just looked bad, and that is why I didn't like them. When it comes to TNG, I like the "Dress Whites" the best, as far as dress uniforms.

The "why" is the issue"--the idea that males will be wearing the so-called skant in the future is one of the self defeating problems of science-fiction--particularly filmed sci-fi. Instead of understanding that the future does not have to mean trying to turn everything on its ear, we have been treated to some writers and/or producers thinking they are being "radical" or "progressive." Usually, that meant doomed-to-ridicule designs such as the skant (TNG), silver spacesuits or skin color (Lost in Space, The Time Tunnel, innumerable movies, etc.) and anything else that did not survive the test of time, which is amusing, since such "radical" designs were attempting to predict fashion trends years beyond the production's era.

Even now, nearly three decades after TNG's pilot, as different as 2014 society is from that in 1987,certain Roddenberry-ian ideas come off as an attempt to be different just to be different. That's more political than science fiction.
 
The "why" is the issue"--the idea that males will be wearing the so-called skant in the future is one of the self defeating problems of science-fiction--particularly filmed sci-fi. Instead of understanding that the future does not have to mean trying to turn everything on its ear, we have been treated to some writers and/or producers thinking they are being "radical" or "progressive." Usually, that meant doomed-to-ridicule designs such as the skant (TNG), silver spacesuits or skin color (Lost in Space, The Time Tunnel, innumerable movies, etc.) and anything else that did not survive the test of time, which is amusing, since such "radical" designs were attempting to predict fashion trends years beyond the production's era.

Even now, nearly three decades after TNG's pilot, as different as 2014 society is from that in 1987,certain Roddenberry-ian ideas come off as an attempt to be different just to be different. That's more political than science fiction.

I don't know if I find the skant "political". Kilts have been around for hundreds of years and, if I remember correctly, Scott wore one in TOS (maybe "Savage Curtain"). I don't mind making an attempt to differentiate the future with different clothing styles. Beats the hell out of Moore's Battlestar Galactica where everyone was wearing American fashions.

And TOS also used silver spacesuits.
 
Confession: I once realized that I had McCoy in two places at once, down in sickbay where he belonged AND up on the bridge during a crisis. I ended up having to rewrite the bridge scenes and give McCoy's dialogue to another character.

You could have added a subplot about there being two McCoys. I somehow imagine they would not get along :)
 
Confession: I once realized that I had McCoy in two places at once, down in sickbay where he belonged AND up on the bridge during a crisis. I ended up having to rewrite the bridge scenes and give McCoy's dialogue to another character.

You could have added a subplot about there being two McCoys. I somehow imagine they would not get along :)

Richard Matheson already wrote that ep. :)
 
Confession: I once realized that I had McCoy in two places at once, down in sickbay where he belonged AND up on the bridge during a crisis. I ended up having to rewrite the bridge scenes and give McCoy's dialogue to another character.

You could have added a subplot about there being two McCoys. I somehow imagine they would not get along :)
One must be the real McCoy.
 
There definitely was more conference/briefing room in the first season of TOS, it just didn't become a mainstay for the show like it was for TNG. I have no problem with scenes like that, but it did become pretty cliche in TNG some where down the line. That moment in "Q Who" never bothered me, because it did seem that they were getting the upper hand when blasting up chunks of the ship, making the Borg seem like they were immobilized until Data discovered they were actually regenerating and becoming even more powerful.
 
There were quite a few things brought in with TNG that I didn't care for.

- The design of the E-D. I've gotten used to it, and it's better than a lot of what I saw come afterward, but I think it's quite flawed. The front end makes it viaually unbalanced. And the soft soap aesthetic doesn't really work form me either. It has very few good viewing angles.

Pretty it was not, but I accepted the change considering how many years passed since TOS.

The pompous holier-than-thou attitiude of the characters early on and still periodically throughout the series.

One of the worst ideas that TNG introduced to the franchise; in Roddenberry's attempt to create a (stale) utopia, Starfleet's officers too often walked around with a paternalistic, condescending, view-down-the-nose attitude. It was akin to a Democractic National Committee convention dipped in a bucket of watered down Star Trek paint.


The overly beige hotel like interior sets.

That's the color scheme for a kind, family-friendly utopian Enterprise. No teeth, no sense of strength.

Not getting to see some of the TOS aliens to some decent extent, particularly Andorian and Gorn.

I can understand the need to introduce new aliens (think all of the new aliens created for The Motion Picture), so going back to the well with every TOS species would not help expand the look of the universe.

- The families aboard ship idea stunk (and still does).

- Deviating too much from what TOS established in terms of historical backstory.[/quote]

..or referring to TOS plots or history as some footnote. This is not to say the new series has to shoot off fireworks about TOS, but the series was trying to send a message that TOS was not significant--even in "Relics." At least by the time of DS9's "Trials and Tribble-ations," Sisko and Dax were well aware of Kirk's time/importance, just as a 2014 person would regarding someone from the early Cold War years.
 
I don't see how TNG merely refers to TOS as a "footnote", given that the characters that do appear are very much treated as legends. Or was "The Naked Time" not being referenced as a major game changing event somehow insulting to TOS?
 
[ It's basically based on sunlight exposure. Subterranean folks like the Aenar would be very pale.
The Eskimos that I met are quite brown, northern Alaska and northern Canada are not exactly known for their extensive sunlight.

:devil:
 
[ It's basically based on sunlight exposure. Subterranean folks like the Aenar would be very pale.
The Eskimos that I met are quite brown, northern Alaska and northern Canada are not exactly known for their extensive sunlight.

:devil:
Doesn't that depend on the time of the year? Apparently Alaska receives more sunlight in spring and summer than the lower 48.

An article I read states that the amount of vitamin D in their diet is why the Inuits are brown.
 
Confession: I once realized that I had McCoy in two places at once, down in sickbay where he belonged AND up on the bridge during a crisis. I ended up having to rewrite the bridge scenes and give McCoy's dialogue to another character.

You could have added a subplot about there being two McCoys. I somehow imagine they would not get along :)

Richard Matheson already wrote that ep. :)

Naah -- after the crisis is over, just have Kirk admonish Bones over his abuse of the site-to-site transporter function. :)
 
I don't see how TNG merely refers to TOS as a "footnote", given that the characters that do appear are very much treated as legends. Or was "The Naked Time" not being referenced as a major game changing event somehow insulting to TOS?


The dialogue in the "The Naked Now" was not exactly reverential.
 
[ It's basically based on sunlight exposure. Subterranean folks like the Aenar would be very pale.
The Eskimos that I met are quite brown, northern Alaska and northern Canada are not exactly known for their extensive sunlight.

:devil:
Doesn't that depend on the time of the year? Apparently Alaska receives more sunlight in spring and summer than the lower 48.

An article I read states that the amount of vitamin D in their diet is why the Inuits are brown.

You are correct. Skin color variation is more or less clinal, but diet can have an impact.
 
IIRC the point being made in The Naked Now was simply that one mission out of thousands that were carried out by multiple Enterprise's over the years is hardly going to be talked about with a degree of remembrance. It always seemed quite naturalistic for Riker to not immediately recall where he'd heard of people showering in their clothes before. It's one of those random things where the fact itself would be more memorable than the context of the whys, wheres, and to whom it originally happened.

Of course, later Trek shows only fanned the flames of the this silly "Kirk's crew was legendary in-universe as well" rhetoric by making his missions something that every good Cadet knows off by heart. :rolleyes: :shifty:
 
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