TITAN too diverse?

[Scott Pearson]

exalted one said:
That Hachesa-Vale scene immediately rang the "PC-Nazi" alert in my head. . . .

The term "PC-Nazi" is such an awkward conflation it becomes meaningless. A person so concerned with imposing the appearance of propriety that he or she becomes on a par with a dictatorship that killed six million people because of religious affiliation? Come on, that's just ludicrous. If you want to make a point that you think people are being oversensitive or censorious or something, just calmly and clearly state your case and we can discuss it. Throwing out such nonsensical hyperbole serves no purpose.

 

[LightningStorm]

Scott Pearson said:
Throwing out such nonsensical hyperbole serves no purpose.

Well, it does serve one purpose. Shock. Probably to elicit just the responses it got.

 

[Amaris]

Coming in 6 pages later, but still I post.


I love the diversity of the Titan. I think Riker's a fantastic Captain, I've already endeared myself to many of the characters, and I enjoy the adventures they have. I think the beauty of the novels are that they show the uncertainty of space outside the hull, and the uncertainty of countless races and cultures inside. The books truly explore the final frontier, outside and in.


J.

 

[Scott Pearson]

LightningStorm said:

Scott Pearson said:
Throwing out such nonsensical hyperbole serves no purpose.

Well, it does serve one purpose. Shock. Probably to elicit just the responses it got.

A pointless purpose, then.

 

[Andy Mangels]

exalted one said:
Yes, you are now allowed to marry and fr*ck each other in the @ss regardless of your gender, race and skin colour, you are allowed to pray to Allah, Jesus and Great Green Arkleseizure at the same time, but you are not allowed to express your thoughts freely. I do not like such a future, as it is not like Star Trek anymore. In Star Trek, they learned not to fear words.

I'm more amused than annoyed by the ignorance of this gent's posting.
Mostly amused as this is the first time that anyone has linked love, ass-fucking, and religious beliefs into the "bad category" together!
I have to wonder though, has ass-fucking EVER been actually referred to in Star Trek?

And for any people who have a continued difficult timeremembering how to spell my last name, it's "Mangels," like "Angels" with an "M". Just remember how angelic I am!

And yes, I heard the "mangled" jokes (and worse, Mengele jokes) since about first grade, so they got old thirty-some years ago...

 

[Scott Pearson]

Andy Mangels said:
Mostly amused as this is the first time that anyone has linked love, ass-fucking, and religious beliefs into the "bad category" together!

The Holy Penitent Monks of the Church of the Divine Buttocks do not share your amusement. Repent, deniers of Klingon stereotypes! Assume the groveling position, and prepare to be smote upon!

 

[Dayton Ward]

^ It sounds so dirty when you say it that way.

 

[Scott Pearson]

Dayton Ward said:
^ It sounds so dirty when you say it that way.

Everyone on this board knows you like it dirty.

I got your diversity . . . right here in my pants!

OK, now someone pull this back on topic, please . . .

 

[Steve Roby]

Scott Pearson said:

I got your diversity . . . right here in my pants!

You got a Swiss Army unit or something? Or switchable attachments, like Kryten?

OK, now someone pull this back on topic, please . . .

Titan is too diverse!
No, it's not!
This damn board is too diverse! Help! I'm being oppressed!

Is that where we left off?

 

[Scott Pearson]

Steve Roby said:
Titan is too diverse!
No, it's not!
This damn board is too diverse! Help! I'm being oppressed!

Is that where we left off?

Right, thanks, that just about does it.

 

[BrotherBenny]

Scott Pearson said:

Steve Roby said:
Titan is too diverse!
No, it's not!
This damn board is too diverse! Help! I'm being oppressed!

Is that where we left off?

Right, thanks, that just about does it.

Indeed This topic is fascinating.

 

[Geoff Thorne]

Also, it might be good to note that, while the ugly squeaky wheel often gets the grease, the better advice is never to feed a Troll.

Accentuate the positive.
Eliminate the negative.
Latch on to the affirmative.

Don't mess with Mr. In Between.

Happy Chrsitmahannukwanza!

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Andy Mangels said:

I have to wonder though, has ass-fucking EVER been actually referred to in Star Trek?

Outside of slash, I don't think so. Time to check the DVDs again there was that one "Menage a Troi" episode.

And for any people who have a continued difficult timeremembering how to spell my last name, it's "Mangels," like "Angels" with an "M". Just remember how angelic I am!

And yes, I heard the "mangled" jokes (and worse, Mengele jokes) since about first grade, so they got old thirty-some years ago...

Hey, I feel ya. My last name is Riddle, just imagine the kinds of things I heard all my nearly 32-years of life. Riddler, Riddle me this, etc.

 

[Christopher]

^^Just tell me your first two names aren't Tom Marvolo...

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

^My middle name is Thomas. So, I've gotten that over the last few years.

 

[JAG]

Time to check the DVDs again there was that one "Menage a Troi" episode.

Ok, that made me laugh

 

[exalted one]

There is nothing wrong with a bit of good-natured "bigotry", as you call it (although I'd rather call it "frankness, with a dash of healthy cynism"). Hachesa is right, Klingons ARE drunkards and Romulans DO have different moral values when it comes to life and honor. The point is not to deny the very existence of differences, but to live and work together regardless of the differences. That's what "diversity" means to me.
Vale is actually worse than Hachesa, because Hachesa purely expresses his belief about Klingons and Romulans, but Vale goes out of her way to suppress him from expressing it. Hachesa is not harming anybody, but Vale is.

Whatever Vale represents, is is not "diversity", it is more like "melting pot mentality". In her world, everybody has to think in the same terms, in the same ways - they are allowed to dress differently, speak different languages, buy different cars, enjoy different movies, but they are no longer allowed to *think* differently. Instead of simply putting their differences aside, they are forced to pretend that their differences are nonexistant. Kinda like the Borg: you still see them having various cranial ridges and such, but they aren't a Klingon, a Cardassian, a Bolian or a Terran, they all melted together, thinking the same, saying the same - they are just Borg now.

Andy Mangels said:
Mostly amused as this is the first time that anyone has linked love, ass-fucking, and religious beliefs into the "bad category" together!

Never said any of that is a bad thing. On the contrary, they are all funny things and if they are funny, they must be good. All I say is that, while some new liberties are granted to us, some others are taken from us at the same time. Freedom of expression is most important, most basic of them all, because there wouldn't be any other freedom without it. Freedom of religion - or freedom of sexuality - serves no point, if freedom of expression is removed.

Anyway, there is it again - "Bad cathegory". I simply point out the differences, and you seem to automatically assume that I consider them "bad" just because I pointed them out.

Steve Roby said:
That set off the "right wing crank who wishes he could still be a loudmouthed bigot without being called on it"

Nothing is more alien to me than right wing ( -6.50 / -3.90 ), which is why I like Star Trek in first place. That "crank" would be correct, though. I'm a crank all right, and the older I am, the more cranky I get.

 

[Geoff Thorne]

Dude, that's horseshit.

I mean, the text is right but the notions you're using it to express are not. it's a corkscrew argument used by racists, sexists and genderists to elevate their spurious notions in order to create parity in debate.

No. Not all notions are equal. No, not all view points are equally worthy of acceptance and understanding. SOME are, demonstrably, counterproductive at the very least and, in those cases, must be excised.

Acceptance of diversity doesn't include tolerance of bigotry. That is simply ridiculous. Yes, for a diverse culture to function, things, mostly unpleasant things, must be compromised but bigotry is not one of them. It goes because it has no merit. Or, put another way, you are entitled to believe the planet is a disk on the back of some elephants but, the second you start teaching children that as the official factual version, you've stepped out of bounds.

The same is true for racial slurs (or religious or gender or ethnic or age).

No, I do not defend your right to be hateful to and about others. I defend your right to think those things and, in a way, to write them or present them, but, if you say them or present them in my presence, you're going to school because I will be taking you there. That's my job as a citizen and as a human being. It's one of the responsibilities that comes with the rights.

It is complete and utter horseshit to decry intolerance in others because they won't tolerate intolerance. Especially so if you've signed up to be part of an organization (or nation) that specifically seeks to stamp out intolerance.

Horse. Shit.

Capitol H. Capitol S.

Now, I know I said troll feeding was not the way to go but, really, stop now. Just stop.

Because this stuff actually pisses me off and I don't like being pissed off at holiday time.

 

[BrotherBenny]

Hachesa was expressing his opinion/belief of Klingons being drunkards and Romulans being shifty, and that is fine. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and no one should have any objection to that. Klingon culture is all about traditions and stamina and endurance for drinking and fighting are their cultural values, just as paranoia and deceit seem to be Romulan ones.

But I don't believe it's acceptable to voice that opinion whilst on duty. Starfleet has to have rules and regulations in order to keep the peace. Making a comment like that either shows bigotry or a lack of respect for those cultures, either of which would be grounds for conduct unbecoming an officer. If a Klingon or Romulan had heard him they would likely have picked a fight because they felt their honour had been sullied.

Hachesa is actually right about some members of both species/cultures with his comments, but there are sure to be Klingons who aren't drunkards, and Romulans who aren't paranoid liars. Generalising about any culture or species is just plain wrong and does show bigotry or lack of respect.

Star Trek has always been about respecting everybody's differences and on the surface Hachesa's comments go against that. The vast majority of people probably have such thoughts about other cultures but they censor themselves because it is not politick to voice them. He has trouble doing so because his culture is different.

I will agree that Vale should have handled it differently, but Hachesa was out of line.

 

[Christopher]

Yeah, people have the right to express prejudiced opinions. But other people have the right to tell them they're wrong. That's part of free speech too. Free speech doesn't mean freedom from criticism of one's speech.