You mangled it?
(What? Somebody had to say it...)
Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
TITAN too diverse?
- Thread starter BrentMc
- Start date
You mangled it?
(What? Somebody had to say it...)
Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
^I would've been disappointed if no one said it.
^ I would have been shocked.
^ Not sh'oqed?
Nahh, I'm trying to cut back. Maybe after the New Year.
^^ One thing about this board is you'll never get bored reading our bs.
In some ways, Titan is actually LESS diverse than other Trek works. I, for one, stopped caring for Titan at one certain point: when Vale began pestering Hachesa for his talk about "drunken Klingons" and "shifty Romulans". What the hell is that? What happened to Kirk's "In our century, we've learned not to fear words."? That Hachesa-Vale scene immediately rang the "PC-Nazi" alert in my head. I still can't decide who is the PC-Nazi in question - whether it's Vale or the authors themselves - but honestly, I do not really care. I'm finished with Martin/Mangels books unless those gentlemen stop infesting the world of Star Trek with their PC-Nazi propaganda.
Where PC-Nazis rule, the diversity of independent thought dies. Yes, you are now allowed to marry and fr*ck each other in the @ss regardless of your gender, race and skin colour, you are allowed to pray to Allah, Jesus and Great Green Arkleseizure at the same time, but you are not allowed to express your thoughts freely. I do not like such a future, as it is not like Star Trek anymore. In Star Trek, they learned not to fear words.
Where PC-Nazis rule, the diversity of independent thought dies. Yes, you are now allowed to marry and fr*ck each other in the @ss regardless of your gender, race and skin colour, you are allowed to pray to Allah, Jesus and Great Green Arkleseizure at the same time, but you are not allowed to express your thoughts freely. I do not like such a future, as it is not like Star Trek anymore. In Star Trek, they learned not to fear words.
Oh, cry me a fucking river. I've not yet had the opportunity to read the book, but from what you've written it looks like Vale was not even objecting to any specific term as a slur but to the use of racial stereotypes generally by this crewman - and good on her. Diversity and tolerance does not mean having to stand and applaud every troglodyte who crawls out from under a rock spouting prejudice. "PC-Nazi" is a sad attempt to deflect attention away from the heart of an issue, prejudice, onto an only tangentially related matter, freedom of speech, and isn't fooling anyone besides. So please, do us a favour and drop the persecution complex. You want to talk about bigotry? We can talk about bigotry, but don't expect that because you voice an opinion people here will stand politely back and refrain from correcting errors. Freedom of speech means respecting the right to speech, not that you have to respect the content. That's always fair game for criticism.
And hey, what's with the hypocrisy of censuring yourself in a post about not being afraid of words? If you don't enjoy ass-fucking, don't engage in it. Simple.
Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
And hey, what's with the hypocrisy of censuring yourself in a post about not being afraid of words? If you don't enjoy ass-fucking, don't engage in it. Simple.
Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
What???? There is a huge difference between "Abe Lincoln" using a harmlessly intended label for a woman's ethnic category and Fo Hachesa making derogatory generalizations about whole species. To claim that "What a charming Negress" and "those shifty Romulans" are somehow equally innocuous in their intent is grossly disingenuous. It's not "PC" to frown on saying insulting things about other people, it's just common courtesy -- or what used to be common courtesy, before our society embraced the idea that courtesy is an oppression to be resisted. I get so sick of people hiding behind the "PC" shibboleth as a way of claiming that being rude and hostile and intolerant of other people is somehow a virtue to be defended, as if the people who disapprove of insults are somehow the ones violating the tenets of polite society. It's downright Orwellian in its hypocrisy.
Well I have read it and I can say in no way was Vale trying to be PC to that member of the crew. No more than Kirk was for telling that crewman what to do with his prejudice towards Spock after they saw the Romulans the first time. That right there contradicts your using his line "In our century, we've learned not to fear words". They don't fear words but will not tolerate that kind of shit on their ships either. There is no place for bigotry either there on Titan or here in the real world. The sooner people realize this the better off we'll be and I hope my children never learn the opposite.
As for Titan being LESS diverse, there are members of more species than I can think of on that ship which would make it MORE diverse than the rest. You’re argument is more aimed at the freedoms and rights of the crew which to me appears to be no different than on any ship we’ve seen or read about. Vale was correct in her statements, especially on a ship like Titan.
There's free speech, than there's stupidity. Some people read books and watch shows/movies for entertainment, others do just to find something that will piss them off so they can cry that this person is a ‘lefty’, or this person has this agenda. As for the authors, I’ve seen nothing in their work to back that at all.
As for Titan being LESS diverse, there are members of more species than I can think of on that ship which would make it MORE diverse than the rest. You’re argument is more aimed at the freedoms and rights of the crew which to me appears to be no different than on any ship we’ve seen or read about. Vale was correct in her statements, especially on a ship like Titan.
There's free speech, than there's stupidity. Some people read books and watch shows/movies for entertainment, others do just to find something that will piss them off so they can cry that this person is a ‘lefty’, or this person has this agenda. As for the authors, I’ve seen nothing in their work to back that at all.
I am always gratified to see the wide array of minds that are attracted to Star Trek.
I disagree, of course, that Vale was a PC-Nazi (whatever that is). It's pretty simple:
Riker's experiment will suffer from internal inter-species frictions even if everyone involved (and we presume they do) agrees with the spirit of the mission.
Hurling ethnic slurs back and forth between crewmen is NOT conducive to the smooth working of a ship unless those particular crewmen, say Bones and Spock, have some sort of standing agreement about the use of such language.
Had Vale, their superior officer, NOT admonished them, she would not have been performing her duties as first officer or as XO.
Moreover, despite some claims to the contrary, Star Trek DOES take a moral position vis a vis acceptance of the Other. It is Pro. it has always been Pro, since well before such terms as PC-nazi were coined.
Starfleet may not be a military organization but it is a para-military one. There's no way that such behavior would be tolerated in the presence of an officer. You put on the uni and it defines you. That's the point of the uniform (indeed the WORD uniform) and it is the point of Riker's experiment.
I disagree, of course, that Vale was a PC-Nazi (whatever that is). It's pretty simple:
Riker's experiment will suffer from internal inter-species frictions even if everyone involved (and we presume they do) agrees with the spirit of the mission.
Hurling ethnic slurs back and forth between crewmen is NOT conducive to the smooth working of a ship unless those particular crewmen, say Bones and Spock, have some sort of standing agreement about the use of such language.
Had Vale, their superior officer, NOT admonished them, she would not have been performing her duties as first officer or as XO.
Moreover, despite some claims to the contrary, Star Trek DOES take a moral position vis a vis acceptance of the Other. It is Pro. it has always been Pro, since well before such terms as PC-nazi were coined.
Starfleet may not be a military organization but it is a para-military one. There's no way that such behavior would be tolerated in the presence of an officer. You put on the uni and it defines you. That's the point of the uniform (indeed the WORD uniform) and it is the point of Riker's experiment.
Someone who wants to round up Mac users in concentration camps?
"Hi, I'm a Mac..."
"And I'm disgusted by your very existence."
That set off the "right wing crank who wishes he could still be a loudmouthed bigot without being called on it" alert in my head. Doesn't mean you are one, but it's a poor choice of words on your part. That doesn't mean I want to limit your freedom of speech; it means you have to think about the connotations your words have, and how people are going to react to them.
I don't get this, all she was doing was stopping him from using racial stereotypes. I actually like the fact that someone has aknowledged the constant use of the racial steroetypes in Trek, and recognized the fact that they don't always have to be true.
IMO this really doesn't make Vale a PC Nazi, all it does is stop Hachesa from making a complete ass of himself.
Joining Starfleet is not compulsory - but those who do sign up and graduate from the Academy have made a promise as to the code of behaviour they will strive to uphold.
To put it another way, they don't fear words, but they do fight ignorance.
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