TITAN too diverse?

[BrentMc]

I have read the first three, and will probably pick up the third soon. I was wondering: am I the only one who thinks that the diversity on TITAN is annoying and that it gets in the way of the action? I understand ST is about getting along, but I want to read stories about adventures and not how strange species need special suits to live on TITAN, or special quarters...For the most part I like the series, but maybe they can make it less sappy....

 

[Therin of Andor]

Re: TITAN to diverse?

I've found many regular ST novels not diverse enough, especially after ST:TMP featured so many cool aliens on the ship. Give me Alan Dean Foster's "ST Logs", Diane Duane's Sulamid and Horta, Christopher Bennett's "Ex Machina", and the multi-world crew of the "Titan" any day!

When I wrote ST fanzine stories in the 80s, a diverse Starfleet crew was my main objective, after a good storyline, of course.

 

[JAG]

Re: TITAN to diverse?

The diversity is the point of Titan. I overall enjoy it. I do admit that sometimes the descriptions of the suits and challenges of living on Titan got a bit much.

 

[J47]

Re: TITAN to diverse?

I like the idea of the diversity, but the execution has been too over the top for my taste. Indeed, this is probably my one nit with the entire series. I understand that they're trying to make a point, but sometimes the description of how each crew member's living quarters are set up is an unnecessary distraction from the plot.

 

[Christopher]

Re: TITAN to diverse?

This is like saying that Vanguard is too secretive or DS9 is too space-stationy or Lost Era is too much about filling in the gaps. Different series have different points, different emphases. The emphasis of Titan is on taking the Trek concept of diversity in combination to its logical extreme -- exploring a ship that's a crucible for the concept, that makes it a challenge for the crew by immersing them in real, no-punches-pulled diversity rather than just a bunch of humanoids with spots or forehead bumps. The adventure is there, but it's as much internal as external -- the new life and new civilizations being explored are right there on the ship, and the challenge and tension come as much from the efforts of the crew to understand each other and overcome the obstacles between them as from the external threat-of-the-week. It's not a "distraction from the plot," it's a large part of what the series is meant to be about in the first place.

That's not wrong, it's just a different storytelling emphasis, in the same way that DS9 or Vanguard has its own distinct emphasis. Sure, not everyone is going to be as interested in that approach as in other approaches, but that doesn't mean it's a mistake to take that tack. Different people like to see different things, and it would be terrible if all Trek book series conformed to a single approach.

 

[OmahaStar]

Re: TITAN to diverse?

^ You never could take even the slightest hint of criticism, could you? You could learn a thing or two from the professional writers like TerriO, Krad, Davey Mack, Bobby G., etc.

 

[Corran Horn]

Re: TITAN to diverse?

I have to say I find it surprising that inside the novel Titan is noted as something of exception rather than the norm. I figured many Starfleet vessels were very diverse. We only ever saw a fraction of the regular crew of the TOS and TNG Enterprises and just because they were mostly human doesn't really mean anything. The bigger problem is Starfleet Academy (where we haven't seen much diversity, but some) and the Admiralty.

 

[Maestro]

Re: TITAN to diverse?

Some of us feel that Titan is too diverse and that such extreme diversity takes away from the action and the plot. Since it's being taken to it's "logical extreme," that indicates to me that it is, in fact, being taken too far. Things that go to extremes are often overwhelmed by those extremes. Such is the case with Titan.

As I've said many times, in the Titan books, there are so many non-humanoid aliens with so many unique names that it's hard to keep track of everyone. Gene used aliens to be a mirror for the human condition. One of the ways that it worked was because the were just alien enough that they weren't us, but just familiar enough that we could see ourselves in them. This isn't what's happening in Titan. It's bizarre for the sake of bizarre.

 

[Endymion]

Re: TITAN to diverse?

Merry Stitchmas said:
^ You never could take even the slightest hint of criticism, could you? You could learn a thing or two from the professional writers like TerriO, Krad, Davey Mack, Bobby G., etc.

Amen.

 

[David Mack]

Re: TITAN to diverse?

Merry Stitchmas said:
You could learn a thing or two from the professional writers like <snip> Davey Mack <snip>

First, please don't call me "Davey".

Second, don't hold me up as a poster boy for taking criticism. Ask my editors -- I bristle, argue, and curse at relatively minor nitpicks.

Once upon a time, I used to react that way in online discussions. Not any more. But not because I've learned restraint or manners; I'm just reallllly tired.

Lastly, I don't think Christopher was out of line for merely stating his opinion about the series, particularly since he has contributed to it. If anything, the folks who seem unwilling to hear opposing opinions are his detractors.

Just my opinion, of course. I accept that some folks will disagree with me.

Happy Yule.

 

[Christopher]

Re: TITAN to diverse?

Corran HoHoHorn said:
I have to say I find it surprising that inside the novel Titan is noted as something of exception rather than the norm. I figured many Starfleet vessels were very diverse. We only ever saw a fraction of the regular crew of the TOS and TNG Enterprises and just because they were mostly human doesn't really mean anything. The bigger problem is Starfleet Academy (where we haven't seen much diversity, but some) and the Admiralty.

See, that's the thing -- in theory, Starfleet should be very diverse, but budgetary limitations (and, frankly, lack of effort in later years) led to us seeing onscreen Starfleet crews that were overwhelmingly human with just a few tokens here and there. And the books can't just pretend that the ships have always been much more diversely crewed than they actually were; we have to follow the lead of what's onscreen. And what's onscreen is a Starfleet that's nowhere near as diverse as it claims it wants to be. In developing this series, Marco decided that was an issue that deserved to be explored and confronted in a way that only prose fiction (or a movie with an unlimited budget) could do, and those of us he's recruited to participate in the series have been happy to follow that lead.

And like I said, if that's not to everyone's tastes, there's nothing wrong with that. The Trek audience is diverse in its interests, and the Trek fiction line tries to be equally diverse. That means not everyone is going to like every book series, but that's fine. There's something for everyone, so there's no reason to argue over it. Some people seem to have interpreted my comments as some kind of argument or expression of hostility, which is odd, because that's exactly the opposite of what I'm trying to say. (And all I'm doing is reiterating a point that's been made by other commentators in earlier threads on this topic.)

 

[JD]

Re: TITAN to diverse?

Personally, I love the deversity on Titan, and it is actually part of why I love the series so much. IMO it's really a nice change of pace from the shows, where all we ever really saw was a bunch of humans and occaisionally an alien with a funny nose or ridges on their forehead or something. I also don't really see where it has taken from the stories, yeah they do spend time talking about the aliens and how they live on the ship, but IMO that is really the best way to show what it takes to make a crew and ship like Titan work.

 

[OmahaStar]

Re: TITAN to diverse?

David Mack said:

Merry Stitchmas said:
You could learn a thing or two from the professional writers like <snip> Davey Mack <snip>

First, please don't call me "Davey".

Yes, dear.

Second, don't hold me up as a poster boy for taking criticism. Ask my editors -- I bristle, argue, and curse at relatively minor nitpicks.

In public? On message boards, where your readers would potentially see the posts and think "maybe I shouldn't buy something from this guy"? Or do you do so in private/offline?

Lastly, I don't think Christopher was out of line for merely stating his opinion about the series, particularly since he has contributed to it. If anything, the folks who seem unwilling to hear opposing opinions are his detractors.

Just my opinion, of course. I accept that some folks will disagree with me.

See, that's another difference. You share an opinion AS an opinion. Chris touts his opinion as though it's fact.

 

[Geoff]

Re: TITAN to [sic] diverse?

Merry Stitchmas said:
^ You never could take even the slightest hint of criticism, could you? You could learn a thing or two from the professional writers like TerriO, Krad, Davey Mack, Bobby G., etc.

What the hell is that supposed to mean? That Christopher isn't a "professional" writer, but the others are? Have we reached a point now where any response to criticism, no matter how reasonable and measured, is intolerable?

If you have criticisms, fine. But don't turn around and tell the authors that they have no right to defend themselves.

 

[Smiley]

Personally, I find the internal adventures on the Titan just as exciting as the weird, wild stuff they find in the Beta Quadrant and beyond. So far, the books have done a pretty good job at striking a balance between cool concepts and character exploration. I hope to see that trend continue in future Titan stories.

 

[OmahaStar]

Re: TITAN to [sic] diverse?

Geoff said:

Merry Stitchmas said:
^ You never could take even the slightest hint of criticism, could you? You could learn a thing or two from the professional writers like TerriO, Krad, Davey Mack, Bobby G., etc.

What the hell is that supposed to mean? That Christopher isn't a "professional" writer, but the others are? Have we reached a point now where any response to criticism, no matter how reasonable and measured, is intolerable?

Of course not. Professionals are able to take the criticism and roll with it. They choose to accept it professionally, whether that means reworking the ending of their next work, or silently telling the other person to go stuff it.

Now, of course this is speaking in generalities. Obviously if there is a troll coming along taking potshots at all the authors, criticizing the work while making it clear they haven't bothered to even read the work, then all bets are off.

If you have criticisms, fine. But don't turn around and tell the authors that they have no right to defend themselves.

"defend"? I think you're taking it to extremes, don't you?

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Re: TITAN to [sic] diverse?

Omaha, whatever issues you may have with Christopher, this isn't the place to air them out. Please return discussing Titan's diversity.

 

[indianatrekker26]

Re: TITAN to [sic] diverse?

At first i was hesitant about the first book, with all the diversity of the different species represented. I was eventually moved by the first book through that diversity. At first, I was disgusted by Dr Ree, when he was eating in the mess hall. When no one wanted to sit with him, and he left the mess hall, I have to say that touched me. Because the authors got inside his head, showed us how he felt about it. That he's a thinking creature with his own feelings, and he shouldn't be looked at differently. I've enjoyed the series very much since then,
I'm on the third novel right now, and I have to say great book so far. You've really done a great job at bringing all these characters to life, Christopher.

 

[Christopher]

Re: TITAN to [sic] diverse?

^^Thanks!

 

[iguana_tonante]

Re: TITAN to [sic] diverse?

Merry Stitchmas said:
^ You never could take even the slightest hint of criticism, could you? You could learn a thing or two from the professional writers like TerriO, Krad, Davey Mack, Bobby G., etc.

Is that something between you and him? Because from the sound of it, sure it seems.

It seems to me that Chistopher just explained his points. Why is that so annoying to you?

And in the same vein of your snickering remarks, I could add a thing or two about people that have a problem with diversity.