Time Crack is stupid

[Photoman15]

Ignoring what Moffat said in the DWM interview, since he phrased it so it can be retracted, the BIG BANG II restored everything in the Universe. Unless it is stated on the show, that's what we have to go on, as told to (us) by The Doctor (of what the Big Bank II will do).

If you want to come up with a reason later why people don't remember aliens stuff, say their memories were "cleaned" when Rassilon restored them to humans when they were all the Master.

 

[Admiral_Young]

^ Yes. As I indicated to EJA in one of my posts...the Big Bang II wasn't intended to be a literal resetting of the universe but a restoring/repairing of it. Nor was it meant to reboot it or a plot device to erase certain previous events. Not to mention that it was kind of a gag as well.

 

[EJA]

^ Yes. As I indicated to EJA in one of my posts...the Big Bang II wasn't intended to be a literal resetting of the universe but a restoring/repairing of it. Nor was it meant to reboot it or a plot device to erase certain previous events. Not to mention that it was kind of a gag as well.

Moffat has stated in an interview that the only things that were restored in The Big Bang were the things that she could remember, and the Dalek invasion was not one of those things. It's gone forever.

 

[Admiral_Young]

^ No it isn't. I have it on DVD

 

[Capt_Pickirk]

^ see. There ya go. Problem solved!

 

[Admiral_Young]

Amy not remembering the Dalek attack was never fully explained. The Doctor replied that it was impossible for her not to remember that...but then recall what happened to Donna when he wiped her memories. He said to Sylvia and Wilf that it will become one of those things that she missed. It's possible that the town of Leadsworth was unaffected by the Dalek invasion, it's been described as the town time forgot. Or maybe the time crack protected it from the invasion somehow and that is why Amy can't remember. It doesn't mean that it didn't happen.

 

[EJA]

And I'm sorry to have to say this, but if recent stories do indeed strongly imply that earlier ones now never happened, then I personally find it a bit hard to watch those earlier stories. Why bother, if they don't really amount to anything anymore? They become like Scream of the Shalka and Death Comes to Time - shadows with no substance. But that's just my opinion, one I'm sure a lot of people will disagree with.

I had to post this again, so people have a really good idea of what my feelings actually are.

I'm actually thinking of writing a fan fic where the Doctor goes back to visit Jackson Lake, and finds him living with his resurrected wife, and Jackson doesn't even remember meeting the Doctor and the Cybermen. As for Miss Hartigan, she's either still running that factory, or she never existed at all. Back in the present day, Harriet Jones is alive and well.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Yeah we get that you think none of the Tenth Doctor's companions are alive and well because of the Time Crack. That isn't the case. Harriet Jones died. Miss Hartigan is dead defeated by the Tenth. You are essentially claiming that no one remembers the Tenth Doctor.

 

[EJA]

However, I don't think this erasure extends to the portions of Series Five set at other points in history. I don't think the Time Cracks, post-"Big Bang," are still present in any of the stories set in other eras (such as "Flesh and Stone"), but I do suspect that their effects persist even without their presence, in the same way that the effects of Amy's parents' lives still persisted (i.e., Amy's continued existence, Amy's continued presence in the Pond house) even after they were erased from time. Cause-less effects.

And that's what's so unbelievably stupid about it. Cause-less events? If your parents are erased from history, then you never existed. If a car smashed into you and killed you, and then that car is erased from existence, it never hit you, and you carry on living. It's that simple.

 

[Admiral_Young]

I give up. I'll read your fan fic if you write it though, I enjoyed the one about Rassilon's return. We just disagree on this topic.

 

[EJA]

I've just remembered a moment in The Two Doctors, when the Sixth Doctor believes that his Second incarnation was killed, and he says that that would make his existence (in his then-current form) a temporal tautology. If Amy's parents were erased but she remained, that's what she would be. Of course, this little problem is resolved in The Big Bang, but if we suppose that the Dalek invasion is erased (as appears to be Moffat's intent), and Harriet Jones and all those other people remain dead, then their deaths would also be temporal tautologies....and they've not been fixed. Aren't these kinds of things supposed to be dangerous to the fabric of space/time?

 

[VDCNI]

That's how it worked in the Two Doctors but not how it works in the Big Bang.

That's Doctor Who for you - change the rules of time depending on what works best for your story.

Long may its discontinuity continue!!

 

[EJA]

Does Jackson Lake still remember meeting the Doctor and the Cybermen now then?

 

[Admiral_Young]

Sigh...why wouldn't he? The question should be does the Eleventh Doctor remember Jackson Lake. If the Eleventh remembers these events...and he clearly remembers the Dalek invasion happening then they happened. The fact that others don't remember shouldn't be the big deal. If the Doctor stops remembering things...then we have a big problem.

 

[Photoman15]

^ Yes. As I indicated to EJA in one of my posts...the Big Bang II wasn't intended to be a literal resetting of the universe but a restoring/repairing of it. Nor was it meant to reboot it or a plot device to erase certain previous events. Not to mention that it was kind of a gag as well.

Moffat has stated in an interview that the only things that were restored in The Big Bang were the things that she could remember, and the Dalek invasion was not one of those things. It's gone forever.

Well that's either bs or he was joshing. She never knew the Ood or the Sontarians nor 99.99999999999999999999999999999etc...% of the universe. Are you saying that nothing else but what she remembered was restored? The restorations were not based on Amy's memory, but the atoms (in the protected Pandorica) of the universe's "memory" spread thru all of time and space with the exploding TARDIS. The Big Bang sort of did the opposite. It brought back everything that Amy FORGOT, like her parents. The Doctor disappeared (until she remembered) because he had to seal himself on the other side of the crack.

 

[Admiral_Young]

^ This is the impression that I got. The crack was the thing doing the erasing, and the Big Bang II repaired everything including Amy's memories.

 

[EJA]

Sigh...why wouldn't he?

Because Jackson Lake is not a time traveller, and without the Cybermen, he would never have lost his wife, never have started thinking he was the Doctor, and never met the real Doctor.

 

[Admiral_Young]

^ You mean he never met the Doctor (not he never met the real doctor). I'm not sure why you're fixating on only the people from the specials and series four. Why not previous companions for instance? Or do they not conform into your viewpoint about the time crack? We know Sarah Jane and Jo Grant remember their time with the Doctor. Does Sarah Jane not remember the Dalek invasion? She'd be a better person to ask this question about than Amy Pond (and I'm not trying to put down Amy) since she had her little reunion with Davros. Does Sarah not remember that? As has been stated before just because these things haven't been referenced directly in a story since they happened doesn't mean they didn't happen. I am not sure why you don't understand that...and please don't reference what Moffat said. We still dont' have a source for that quote.

 

[DWF]

Steven Moffat's quote comes from an interview in DWM as I've said before.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Okay but my point is that you've not linked or provided the issue for the quote. I'm not claiming that he didn't say it.