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Thor: Ragnarok

Marvel could have given Chris Evans his last solo film before tackling the Civil War story line

Captain America was the lead character, so the name of the movie is not an issue IMO. Marvel's universe has moved some characters away from solo movies but they still have plenty to come, so I don't see the issue.

I do mind when I'm presented a film in which the title indicates that it is a Captain America film and I'm given an Avengers film in which Iron Man is made the co-lead

When your presented? The trailers and all the advertising, were very clear what this movie was, it wasn't presented as anything other than what we got.

personally do mind it. I don't want to give up money to watch a Captain America movie and find myself watching an Avengers film in which Tony Stark is the co-lead. Nor do I want to give up money to see a Thor movie and find myself watching a semi-Avengers film in which the Hulk is also a co-lead.

Again the trailers, TV spots aka ALL the advertising was very clear what sort of movie it was. It's your right not to give them your money, so do that.
 
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Captain America was the lead character, so the name of the movie is not an issue IMO. Marvel's universe has moved some characters away from solo movies but they still have plenty to come, so I don't see the issue.

There is no issue--other that some not being fond of the MCU Captain America. ..and you're right, CA was the clear lead character--all plots were driven by him, his philosophy, relationships (not just his brotherhood with Bucky), and his effect on the future of costumed heroes in that world.
 
Captain America was the lead character, so the name of the movie is not an issue IMO. Marvel's universe has moved some characters away from solo movies but they still have plenty to come, so I don't see the issue.


Chris Evans may have been given the top credit. And the title of the movie was called Captain America. But that was no Captain America movie to me. Perhaps to you, but not to me.

Now, will Mark Ruffalo be a co-lead, like Downey Jr. was a co-lead in "Civil War" or will he merely be in a supporting role?
 
Probably co-lead. This is their way of adapting Planet Hulk without having to make a Hulk solo film and fork over money to Universal for distribution rights.
 
Probably co-lead. This is their way of adapting Planet Hulk without having to make a Hulk solo film and fork over money to Universal for distribution rights.


Swell. I'm about to watch a Thor movie in which the Hulk is the co-lead. Why doesn't Marvel just give this movie another title and admit that they're robbing Chris Hemsworth of his third solo film. I wonder who will be next. I know this would never happen to Robert Downey "f***ing" Jr.
 
Chris Evans may have been given the top credit. And the title of the movie was called Captain America. But that was no Captain America movie to me. Perhaps to you, but not to me.

It focused almost entirely on plot threads introduced in CA:WS. It's primary characters were Cap and Bucky. It featured a major Cap villain in Zemo, the final fate of Crossbones (itself a scene that is a direct sequel to Winter Soldier) and it's entire thematic resolution is focused almost exclusively on Cap and the impact he has on people. Just because Stark had a good sized role doesn't mean he was anything but a support player. He got about the same amount of character arc as Widow in CA:WS. Yes, it had the Avengers, but they were all bit players.

Swell. I'm about to watch a Thor movie in which the Hulk is the co-lead. Why doesn't Marvel just give this movie another title and admit that they're robbing Chris Hemsworth of his third solo film. I wonder who will be next. I know this would never happen to Robert Downey "f***ing" Jr.

Yes, let's "rob" Chris Hemsworth of his third solo film. You're complaining about this now? The first two Thor movies were Loki vehicles that let Thor ride along and look pretty. And, quite frankly, after the dull as dishwater "romance" between Thor and Jane, I'd much rather watch the Thor-Hulk buddy team. At least they have chemistry.

But yes, let us all judge the film before we've had any chance to see it. Everybody is assuming Hulk's role anyhow. We know he appears, but we won't know how much presence he'll have until the picture is actually released. God knows Suicide Squad sure looked like a Joker film in trailers and commercials.
 
It focused almost entirely on plot threads introduced in CA:WS. It's primary characters were Cap and Bucky. It featured a major Cap villain in Zemo, the final fate of Crossbones (itself a scene that is a direct sequel to Winter Soldier) and it's entire thematic resolution is focused almost exclusively on Cap and the impact he has on people. Just because Stark had a good sized role doesn't mean he was anything but a support player. He got about the same amount of character arc as Widow in CA:WS. Yes, it had the Avengers, but they were all bit players.

Exactly...but someone is determined to play up this "not a solo movie" argument, when all one needs to do is remove the Cap elements from CW and there's not much of a film or "Civil War" at all.



Yes, let's "rob" Chris Hemsworth of his third solo film. You're complaining about this now? The first two Thor movies were Loki vehicles that let Thor ride along and look pretty. And, quite frankly, after the dull as dishwater "romance" between Thor and Jane, I'd much rather watch the Thor-Hulk buddy team. At least they have chemistry.

You're not kidding. Natalie Portman added nothing to the Thor films.

But yes, let us all judge the film before we've had any chance to see it. Everybody is assuming Hulk's role anyhow. We know he appears, but we won't know how much presence he'll have until the picture is actually released. God knows Suicide Squad sure looked like a Joker film in trailers and commercials.

Good point.
 
It focused almost entirely on plot threads introduced in CA:WS. It's primary characters were Cap and Bucky. It featured a major Cap villain in Zemo, the final fate of Crossbones (itself a scene that is a direct sequel to Winter Soldier) and it's entire thematic resolution is focused almost exclusively on Cap and the impact he has on people. Just because Stark had a good sized role doesn't mean he was anything but a support player. He got about the same amount of character arc as Widow in CA:WS. Yes, it had the Avengers, but they were all bit players.


Let's see . . . the whole thing about Bucky centered more on his impact upon Tony Stark than Steve Rogers. In fact, not only did the movie started with the murders of Howard and Maria Stark, but the whole movie centered around using Bucky's role as Winter Soldier and the Starks' murders in order to break up the Avengers. The movie spent ten to fifteen minutes on Tony recruiting Peter Parker for the battle in Berlin than it did on Steve and Sam recruiting Clint Barton and Scott Laing. In fact, why would Scott suddenly volunteer to help Steve and Sam without really knowing them? Why did Clint end his retirement to help those two? The movie never bothered to answer.

This movie DID NOT strike me as a real follow up to "The Winter Soldier", since it didn't really bother with Steve trying to reconcile with Bucky, aside from a long conversation about the Winter Soldier program. The relationship between Bucky and Sam - and their relationship with Steve - was treated as a running joke. And Steve's romance with Sharon Carter was nothing but a rush job.

What can I personally say about "Captain America: Civil War"? DISAPPOINTED. And now that Bruce Banner has become a co-lead for the next Thor movie, I'm not really looking forward to it.
 
Let's see . . . the whole thing about Bucky centered more on his impact upon Tony Stark than Steve Rogers. In fact, not only did the movie started with the murders of Howard and Maria Stark, but the whole movie centered around using Bucky's role as Winter Soldier and the Starks' murders in order to break up the Avengers. The movie spent ten to fifteen minutes on Tony recruiting Peter Parker for the battle in Berlin than it did on Steve and Sam recruiting Clint Barton and Scott Laing. In fact, why would Scott suddenly volunteer to help Steve and Sam without really knowing them? Why did Clint end his retirement to help those two? The movie never bothered to answer.

Most of this is actually you complaining about the shared universe of the Marvel films. Scott and Hawkeye don't really need to be explained that much, because we've seen it in previous films. Scott less so, but his Avengers-nerd moment with Falcon in his own solo pretty much sets all the groundwork you need. They're banking on the audience being familiar with these characters already, a conceit of the shared universe.

Tony recruiting Peter isn't about Tony, either, by the way. It's the one really blatant moment in the film where they jettison the plot for the "cool factor" of introducing the MCU's Spidey. If that isn't enough to get you through the tangent, and I understand it isn't for many viewers, then so be it.

And as for Steve and Bucky, of course the movie didn't center on Bucky's impact on Steve. That was what Winter Soldier was about! This took the next step: if Bucky is back in the world, but he was the Winter Soldier for a really long time, what does that look like. Bucky's impact on EVERYBODY ELSE is the point, and Stark is used as the focus because, again, he's a character the audience has already connected with. Bucky did bad things. This will have consequences. Steve will face choices.

This movie DID NOT strike me as a real follow up to "The Winter Soldier", since it didn't really bother with Steve trying to reconcile with Bucky, aside from a long conversation about the Winter Soldier program. The relationship between Bucky and Sam - and their relationship with Steve - was treated as a running joke. And Steve's romance with Sharon Carter was nothing but a rush job.

On the Sharon Carter bit, considering all we've seen of their romance is the meet cute and their first "date", I'm not sure I'd agree about things being rushed. That said, I'll concede the point. It was a sub plot that has rolled through both Winter Soldier and Civil War (see, another way the one is a sequel to the other!), but it's not the focus.

Steve didn't have to reconcile with Bucky. The whole point of the Winter Soldier's climax is that Steve still loves Bucky, and doesn't want to fight him once the world is saved. Bucky needed to reconcile with himself, but we actually do see that in Civil War, as he goes from isolating himself to standing shoulder to shoulder with Steve once again.

And yes, the relationship between Bucky and Sam was played for laughs. It's two guys who both share the same best friend, and who couldn't really be more different. They don't like each other, but they'll play along for Steve's sake. The humor conveyed the point as well as any deep conversation could have, and saved on running time. But I can't in any way agree that their relationship to Steve was played as a joke.

End of the day, you'll like what you like, and won't like what you won't. The movie wasn't the sequel to Winter Soldier you wanted, that's fair enough. But your argument that it wasn't a real follow up is bunk. The movie pays off plot threads from both previous Cap movies, and Steve is the emotional heart of the film, not to mention the primary actor. His choices drive the film's plot, his relationships define it's stakes, and his failures and successes circumscribe it's outcomes.
 
Swell. I'm about to watch a Thor movie in which the Hulk is the co-lead. Why doesn't Marvel just give this movie another title and admit that they're robbing Chris Hemsworth of his third solo film. I wonder who will be next. I know this would never happen to Robert Downey "f***ing" Jr.
Even if it's not a "solo" movie, which they haven't even really been advertising it as, it's still pretty easy to tell, even with the little bits we know about the movie, that it is very much focused on Thor, with Hulk just along for the ride.
The main plot points we know of are mostly relevant to Thor, he's trying to prevent Ragnarok, and find his father. Both of those are very much Thor focused plots, I can't really see Hulk being that concerned with Asgard's fate, and he really has no emotional connection to Odin that we know of. There's also the fact that of the supporting characters we know of part of Thor's supporting cast, Heimdal, Odin, Valkyrie, and Loki. The villains, Hela and Skurge, are Thor villains. The only elements of the movie that aren't directly a part of Thor's story up to this point are Hulk, Dr. Strange, and Grandmaster.
I've actually been hearing it referred to as a buddy movie with Thor and Hulk a lot more than as a solo Thor movie. It does seem that a lot more of the story is made of up stuff related to Thor though, which I'm assuming is why they chose the title they did.
 
I doubt that anyone who enjoys these movies is going to have a problem with getting more of Ruffalo's Hulk.
 
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