Things You'd Liked to Have Seen in Star Trek
- Thread starter Captain Clark Terrell
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Have Kirk survive Generations, his death did nothing to advance the plot. Even if we never saw him again, like we never saw Scotty again.
I agree that his death wasn't necessary for the plot, but I do think it was included to symbolise the hand-over of the torch to the Picard generation, like it or not.
"And she tries to cover up, but I've seen everything..."
I agree with both of you, but I think Kirk's fate should have been left ambiguous (IE sucked back into the Nexus or something).Have Kirk survive Generations, his death did nothing to advance the plot. Even if we never saw him again, like we never saw Scotty again.
I agree that his death wasn't necessary for the plot, but I do think it was included to symbolise the hand-over of the torch to the Picard generation, like it or not.
I agree with both of you, but I think Kirk's fate should have been left ambiguous (IE sucked back into the Nexus or something).Have Kirk survive Generations, his death did nothing to advance the plot. Even if we never saw him again, like we never saw Scotty again.
I agree that his death wasn't necessary for the plot, but I do think it was included to symbolise the hand-over of the torch to the Picard generation, like it or not.
I don't think it was necessary to have him in there to begin with. I can understand the reasoning behind it, but TNG was a popular show that had only just gone off the air; surely there was a significant audience for a movie spin-off. The Undiscovered Country had given the original cast a fitting send-off, and bringing some of them back in the next one not only undermined that but suggested a lack of confidence in the TNG cast's ability to pull in an audience.
I think a TOS/TNG crossover could've and should've happened. If there was a time to do it, that was the time.
But the script was half-baked, the cast was half-baked, the whole damn thing was half-baked.
I can sit and watch Generations and enjoy it, but it's also hard to dodge and ignore all the missed opportunities that are practically cascading off the screen.
You can SEE, FEEL, and HEAR the potential, but I also can't help but SEE, FEEL and HEAR like this is an unfinished product.
Generations is like the Richard Donner-version of Superman II. You can see the framework, but with the missing scenes that were never shot, you can never get the full effect of what Donner was working on when he was fired. All you have is a strong feeling of the potential and what-could've-been.
To me, Generations feels like that.
But the script was half-baked, the cast was half-baked, the whole damn thing was half-baked.
I can sit and watch Generations and enjoy it, but it's also hard to dodge and ignore all the missed opportunities that are practically cascading off the screen.
You can SEE, FEEL, and HEAR the potential, but I also can't help but SEE, FEEL and HEAR like this is an unfinished product.
Generations is like the Richard Donner-version of Superman II. You can see the framework, but with the missing scenes that were never shot, you can never get the full effect of what Donner was working on when he was fired. All you have is a strong feeling of the potential and what-could've-been.
To me, Generations feels like that.
There's been lots of full-frontal nudity on Trek. Only a human being would assume that nudity doesn't count if it isn't a naked human.
It kinda counts, and the Betazeds walked around nude once or twice (IIRC).
Full frontal nudity of someone with both genders? Alright Homeier, way to open up the concept.
Technically, wasn't Odo completely naked all the time? I mean he wasn't wearing clothes.
It was seven years between Farpoint and Generations, any "torch passing" was surely long in the past.
For the series, yes. But in that case, why were they still making TOS movies during TNG's run ?
Anyway, if you have a better explanation for his movie death, i'd like to hear it. I sure hope they didn't kill him just to be mean to the public and for shock value, or so ...
Not according to this article:
http://www.blastr.com/2012/07/shatner_still_pissed_they.php
Of course, I don't know how reliable this info is.
http://www.blastr.com/2012/07/shatner_still_pissed_they.php
Of course, I don't know how reliable this info is.
It's still screentime and a paycheck, I suppose
The alternative would have been simply to not appear again in a movie, as I don't think the studio would have said: 'oh you don't like this? Fine, we'll change the ending and let your character live'.
But all this still doesn't answer the question why he was killed off (except for the fact he agreed to it).
I've listened to the audiobook of "Star Trek Movie Memories" and "Get a Life" enough to have a pretty good recollection:
The way Shatner tells it, it seemed to come off a brainstorming session between the Generations writers. One of them said, "Well, what if we kill Kirk?" And everyone said, "Wow, that would be something." And so Kirk's death became the framework around which to build the plot.
They went to Paramount, which told the TNG people, "Are you sure you want to do this?" To which they replied, "Yes." To which Paramount said, "Ok, we're behind you."
And then of course they---(I think it was Rick Berman)---went to Bill Shatner with the idea. Shatner said he waffled a bit on the idea, but that he ultimately decided to go through with it because it sounded like a good idea to send off the character and that it might be fun to play.
EDIT: In Star Trek Movie Memories, Shatner said he waffled for a second, but as you'll see in the following excerpt from Get A Life, he said he didn't.
Here's an excerpt from Bill's "Get a Life!" which I just happened to have in front of me:
The way Shatner tells it, it seemed to come off a brainstorming session between the Generations writers. One of them said, "Well, what if we kill Kirk?" And everyone said, "Wow, that would be something." And so Kirk's death became the framework around which to build the plot.
They went to Paramount, which told the TNG people, "Are you sure you want to do this?" To which they replied, "Yes." To which Paramount said, "Ok, we're behind you."
And then of course they---(I think it was Rick Berman)---went to Bill Shatner with the idea. Shatner said he waffled a bit on the idea, but that he ultimately decided to go through with it because it sounded like a good idea to send off the character and that it might be fun to play.
EDIT: In Star Trek Movie Memories, Shatner said he waffled for a second, but as you'll see in the following excerpt from Get A Life, he said he didn't.
Here's an excerpt from Bill's "Get a Life!" which I just happened to have in front of me:
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