They were already under threat. Enemy combatants are legitimate targets. You don't sit around and get the crap kicked out of you and then eventually fire back.
Spoilers Things that grind my gears about S3
- Thread starter ED-209
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They had good reason to take out an enemy ship.
So since the Emerald Chain knows the location of Starfleet HQ, Starfleet should just go around destroying every Emerald Chain ship they find? I would be more sympathetic if destroying the ship was the only way to escape, but it clearly wasn't given the spore drive. So yes, it is just straight up murder.
The Viridian was the lead ship in a fleet attacking Federation HQ. Not some some random ship in space.
It's a ship which captured another Starfleet ship, took control of the spore drive, arrived at Starfleet Command, and launched an attack on SFC. Given its known capabilities include launching a devastating biological weapon, it's continued existence poses a clear and present danger to Starfleet Command and the civilian population living at the same facility. It is a legitimate military target which a Starfleet ship is justified to destroy.
Sure, but it still runs completely counter to the concept of defense and de-escalation and I will say I've never seen Starfleet portrayed this way. Just because you are in a conflict doesn't give you free license to do whatever you want. It's kind of like, if you are a police officer you can't just pull out your gun and start shooting the criminal you are apprehending. Not to mention, it was tactically a pretty dumb decision since they didn't even know if Book could operate the spore drive so they were also risking their own lives for no good reason.
The warp core thing though was always a last ditch do or die trope and that is how the show portrayed it with the can they jump in time scene where the only clock running was the one the crew set themselves. Discovery just used it as a giant bomb for the lols it seemed and put themselves in danger
They are soldiers not police officers.
"Risk is our business,"-James Kirk
You can if said criminal had attacked Police HQ, killed a number of other police officers and attempted to poison the chief of police, their family and the neighbourhood in which they live and was attempting to kidnap you.
Yeah, but don't forget they went to Federation HQ to negotiate peace. And while it happened to not work out, if I was Starfleet I would still be trying to get them back to the negotiating table by doing everything I could to de-escalate the situation. The whole concept of Trek is that the Federation and Starfleet are idealistic and hold themselves to a much higher standard.
But they aren't soldiers. Starfleet is not supposed to be a military organization.
Indeed yes. Also, if Discovery was destroyed it took it out of the hands of the Emerald Chain, which was their target to dominate the region. The warp core makes sense even if Discovery is lost. The threat is eliminated and the Chain lacks motivation to continue their assault on Starfleet HQ.
Kirk described himself as a soldier, In the 24th century you had that hub-bub but they still act in a military capacity, going to the Federation's wars. In Deep Space Nine Sisko definitely acted as a solider.
"I'm a soldier, not a diplomat" Also, James Kirk.
The Emerald Chain still fired the first shot and left the peace table just because Osyrra didn't want to face Federation justice for the crimes she committed which the Federation has laws against.
I'm late to this discussion (even though I've already said everything I could on the matter before in a different thread), but...
they "went to negotiate peace" by hijacking a Federation starship and flying it inside the HQ's shields. Which they were completely prepared to blow through in case Vance decided not to let them in. They've committed literal war crimes by the IRL understanding of the word: attacking under a false flag is a war crime unless you identify yourself before opening fire.
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It's been pretty well established in canon after TOS that Starfleet is not a military organization.
I understand that. I'm just saying that destroying that ship was completely unnecessary. Sure you can speculate what the enemy ship might have done (gone back to Fed HQ, used their pesticides, etc.), but the only thing in imminent danger was Discovery, and they didn't need to blow up that ship to escape. And since Ossyra was already dead and the Emerald Chain just ended up falling apart offscreen, it was pretty pointless in retrospect, other than having a cool VFX scene.
Yeah, I'm not really sure why they had to do that. Another plot hole I suppose.
So they should assume that no one else would try to attack them when they had just been attacked under a false flag of truce? This is basically being mad at the characters for not knowing they are in a fictional story!
Sure. They just fly around in armed ships, fight in conflicts against the militaries of its government's foes, defend it's borders... but no, it's not a military.
yeah...a pity they didn’t make him the Federation President or something, now he’s just a guy that is important for some reasons but maybe he isn’t.
true. As soon as she started opening up her storyline finished.
totally agreed. We’ve had this discussion on these forums already and we’ll have it again for many years to come, I can only say I’m baffled by how many have no problem with these kind of actions.
actually shooting such criminal in the back would still be a crime in basically every jurisdiction. Such rule does not currently apply in the case of an enemy soldier, *however* no state of war existed between the federation and the chain, the Viridian was retreating and no immediate danger, it was not a legitimate target.
Nonsensical demand that no leader would ever submit themselves too, probably only made to make her break negotiations.
Ah, come on, the Star Patrol aren't a police force! Okay, it's true that they have the authority to investigate crimes, make arrests, maintain public order, direct traffic and secure locations, wear uniforms and have ranks taken straight from the London Metropolitan Police Service, but the characters say they aren't police, it can't be so!
The Viridian was a capital ship of the Emerald Chain's military which attacked and captured a crucial Federation military asset, then used said asset to lead an attack on the Federation HQ itself. The operation was led by a senior member of their government who presented terms of an armistice to the Federation, which at the very least implies that her actions were sanctioned by her government. Unless the Chain denounced Osyraa as a rogue actor, then she attacked the Federation with her government's blessing. It was an act of war, and the Chain and the Federation were de facto at war with each other the moment she opened fire on Discovery. Wars don't need to be declared to be fought.
Did they? We know nothing of the Emerald Chain's fate, and indeed, Osyrra is not the leader of the entire Chain itself, as made clear during her conversation with Admiral Vance when she talks about representing her constituents to the Chain's Congress.
It posed an immediate danger to Disco and its crew, making it a legitimate target to them.
As you know, Starfleet is an armed uniform service with rank structure, martial discipline and the responsibility for defending the Federation and fighting its wars. But Starfleet is not a military.Sure. They just fly around in armed ships, fight in conflicts against the militaries of its government's foes, defend it's borders... but no, it's not a military.
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