Spoilers Things that grind my gears about S3

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by Kahlesh, Jan 13, 2021.

  1. Kahlesh

    Kahlesh Captain Captain

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    Below is a list of things that "grind my gears" about S3.

    1. Detached Warp Nacelles
    Dumbest idea in history.

    2. Earth becoming isolationist.
    The most unTrek idea in the history of Trek, made worse by the fact that it wasn't rectified by the end of the year.

    3. Blinking breaking holograms
    A flaw from the 23rd century still exists nearly a millennium later? Why didn't Pulaski blink at Moriarty??

    4. "It's made of our shit"
    No it's not, it's energy converted into matter.

    5. The new Turbolift "shafts"
    They make literally no sense, what they had before was fine and actually made sense, why change it?

    6. The reason for the Burn.
    So anticlimatic.

    ---------------------------------------
    Not a bad season otherwise, season 2 is still the best one though.

    Thoughts?
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2021
  2. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I'm not too crazy about the detached nacelle thing.
     
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  3. UssGlenn

    UssGlenn Commodore Commodore

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    Yes it is. You only need to convert energy if you need an element that isn't available in the slush tank (or you run out of slush). To do otherwise is ridiculously inefficient. And being squeamish about such things goes against the evolved perspective humanity is supposed to have.
     
  4. Kahlesh

    Kahlesh Captain Captain

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    I'm not squeamish about it, it's just not right.

    It doesn't come out of a "slush tank" the food is materialised from energy, similar to transporter technology.
     
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  5. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Enterprise said same thing about boots.
     
  6. SpocksOddSocks

    SpocksOddSocks Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Fairly certain I remember reading something about the Enterprise D have a matter store, which kept raw materials for use in the replicators. It might not have been canon in the sense of being mentioned in screen (or it could end I can't remember), but I'm sure it was in some of the source material, and it was always the intention.
     
  7. jackoverfull

    jackoverfull Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Actually I don’t mind and can come up with different rationales.
    still better than the destroyed wasteland they might have went with.

    this was really stupid.

    and matter gets reconverted into energy, so technically it might be true. Still gross and out of the place statement.

    yep.

    Quite.
    never seen this anywhere.
     
  8. Deks

    Deks Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Saru mentioned that it improved maneuverability at impulse... which on one hand makes sense if you consider the premise the nacelles are the heaviest part of a starship, HOWEVER, on the other hand, it doesn't make ANY sense because SF ships already achieved exceedingly high maneuverability at sublight by reducing their inertial mass via establishing a low level subspace field around them (which results in really high sublight velocities of at least 75 000 km per second and maneuverability comparable to small fighter craft) - which is what SF has been doing since at least 23rd and 24th centuries (field control) - heck, the USS Discovery itself showed greater maneuverability in Season 1 at sublight than it did in the 32nd century.
    To me field manipulation (aka inertial mass reduction via subspace fields) seems more efficient.

    The writers may have forgotten about this or just wanted something 'cool' to add so as to make ships more visually different.

    I would have to say though that WIFI power transfer exists in 24th century Federation (and in 23rd for that matter), so, having nacelles separate and feeding them more than enough power without losses wouldn't be an issue... in fact, perhaps it offers further safety if someone targets the nacelles so they could detach completely from the hull in that case and prevent the damage from spreading to the rest of the ship (albeit this wasn't mentioned).

    Perhaps... and their reasons for not being Federation members (self-sustaining) doesn't track. Even before the Burn, I'd imagine that most/all member species planets would have to be self-sufficient to begin with. A space faring society capable of Warp that meets the criteria for joining the Federation would essentially HAVE to be self-sustaining (given what Bajor had to do in order to qualify for Federation membership).

    But there was another explanation, they mentioned Earth's safety for why the Federation/SF HQ left Earth in the first place... which from a security point of view does track (since they had no idea who/what caused the Burn and whether it was a targeted attack or not), but in that time, it would have been better that SOL already had built its own Dyson Sphere for example and decided to cut itself off to further for protection - another missed opportunity (that and how they dealt with lack of communications in the episode between Earth and Titan was also ridiculous).

    I balked at that nonsense too. That 'flaw' would have been eliminated well before late 24th century.
    But its possible Kovich introduced these flawed holos specifically for Georgiou... and he was more amused by this premise and could have been testing her. Again, we don't know because nothing was revealed (even as a passing line).
    As for why Pulaski didn't blink at Moriarty... probably because she didn't know, and its possible that Moriarty wouldn't be susceptible to this problem seeing how the computer made adjustments so that Moriarty could defeat Data (who in fact WOULD know of this vulnerability in holos... but then, why didn't he TRY it? Maybe he did off-screen briefly - but 24th century holos' didn't have these kinds of vulnerabilities).

    Exactly.
    24th century replicators convert energy into matter... they don't reorganize pre-existing matter into another form of matter (that was what molecular synthesizers did - aka a precursor to replicators). But they are capable of converting matter into energy as well (for recycling purposes mainly - however, for purely new items, they have been stated they convert energy into matter).

    However, its possible that SF in the 32nd century decided to use the matter to matter conversion technology instead due to the Burn and overall scarcity that ensued (though to be fair, by the 32nd century, even the non M/AM power sources would be orders of magnitude more powerful than a warp core from the 24th century and energy to matter replicator efficiency would improve to such a degree where it would be literally inconsequential - but, as you know, the writers decided not to progress virtually anything or stick to what was established).

    Even Season 1 and 2 both featured huge chasms on Discovery and Enterprise through which turbolifts would move ... but I can see why they would get rid of the support struts for the turbolifts. They were previously maglev based yes, and much like maglev trains require 'tracks' today, they also need those 'tracks' in the 23rd and 24th centuries... now (in the 32nd) they simply decided to get rid of the struts/rails/tracks themselves in order free up internal space and they can do so with programmable matter which materializes things as needed and these things are so finely tuned that they are as reliable as physical matter if not more so. Removing the tracks to free up space makes sense (you can put in more fusion reactors there for example) but without specifically saying that Disco now has TARDIS tech as seen from a previous 30th century time pod ship we saw on ENT... what we saw in the last episode was simply speaking TOO HUGE to fit on the inside of that ship.

    Agreed, but to be fair, most things in real life are anticlimatic as well. Most humans tend to make up sensationalist nonsense because they think this is the only way to entertain themselves.

    They could have made a reason for the Burn simply speaking different - say it was caused by an extra-galactic species that was close to being a Type IV civilization (and Federation achieving Type III status and starting to transition to Type IV before the Burn and advancing even faster due to how they operate). Classical xenophobia/fear brought into the equation as a reason for attacking the Federation from say half a universe away.

    The Spore Drive would literally be invaluable here. The Federation would (realistically) have ability to reach other galaxies fairly effortlessly by this time, but the Spore Drive would be in a different league (as it would be able to go ANYWHERE in the universe... literally) vs say enhanced Warp drive, Coaxial Warp, Transwarp, or even Quantum Slipstream V2 (this one was the fastest, topping out at 10 000 Ly's per minute in the late 24th century).

    Although I would have liked to see in that case the Federation moving WAY BEYOND use of dilithium and M/AM in general for power generation by the 32nd century and the more powerful alien race simply having the power of thousands of galaxies at their disposal, whereas the Federation could have had say the Milky Way, Andromeda and a few others in immediate vicinity.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2021
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  9. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Imagine if the burn was caused by another tedious space war and yet another WMD.

    I liked what they went with.
     
  10. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Not even close.
    It makes sense in context of the story. There is no reason to assume everything will always go perfectly, and that some times associations break down. See the Khitomer Accords.
    Why assume that flaw was actually present and not used as a test for Georgiou.
    Meh. It's a silly joke that Enterprise also made. Dumb but ultimately harmless.
    Can't argue much with this. No, they don't make much sense except to look fun. Oh well.
    Good. Not everything needs to be climatic.
    I recall that too. I think that was in either the tech manual or the tech sheet.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2021
  11. UssGlenn

    UssGlenn Commodore Commodore

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    Even with matter slush tanks, the atoms still get temporarily converted into energy, the same way people do in the transporter. But it's got to be way more efficient to transport an existing carbon atom into place than make one from scratch. Even if the 24th century got cavalier about energy usage, I can totally see engineers later thinking it was too inefficient and returning to a hybrid system. There's no need to waste energy.
     
  12. darrenjl

    darrenjl Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Try explaining WiFi to a human 900 years in the past, detached nacelles aren't exactly that far off an explanation.
     
  13. valkyrie013

    valkyrie013 Commodore Commodore

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    Something can come from nothing, be it energy or other matter, the replicator makes food out of something, many times in the shows that it shown to be both, it needs energy, and sometimes need matter.
    Lets say you make a Lasagna, plate, forks, glass of burgundy, basically a meal. This time it may have been made of energy, but when your done, and put the dishes in, it disappears. Now it can go back in to energy, and maybe fed into the system, but it may also have been transmuted to a slush in a tank. For a simple reason of Energy Storage. It takes X amount of energy to make it from scratch, but it may take X - 21% if they use some slusho for the task since it won't take as much energy to make it.
    Now with 32nd century, yes they have power, but replicators may represent a good % of the power consumption, and if you can decrees the energy consumption, it can be used for something else, so the default replicator may use the slusho-matic.

    As for the others, some may have not been my prefered solution, but its greatly better than they could have done.
    For example, Yes Earth is Isolationist now, but it could have been worse, maybe a dystopia from others attacking it after the burn, doing a Mad Max grab all the resources you can, even if you have to destroy/raid for it.

    And I am in a number of threads poo poo'ing the Wonka-vators.. ugh..
     
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  14. FederationHistorian

    FederationHistorian Captain Captain

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    1. Its their way of making the 32nd century futuristic.

    2. Maybe they are in an alliance with the Tholians, considering the similarities to the planetary shield and the Tholian Web.:shrug:

    3. Okay, that one was stupid. Surely that flaw was fixed by the 24th century, Burn or no Burn.

    4. That Vance chose to be explicitly gross about the explanation is a reflection as to what he really thought about Osyraa and the Emerald Chain.

    5. That precedent was set by ENT, with that time ship from the future that was bigger on the inside.

    6. What would you have done?
     
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  15. Jadeb

    Jadeb Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Sure, the food is made of feces, but it’s also made of yesterday’s uniforms, that broken phaser, dead plants, discarded medical equipment, the empty Saurian brandy bottle, unneeded supplies, possibly even dead crew members. By the time matter/energy manipulation becomes as ubiquitous and long-established as portrayed in Discovery, I really don’t think people will think of it as Vance described.

    “Soylent Green is still people! They said they changed the recipe, but they didn’t! It’s still peeeeeeeooopple!”
     
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  16. Vger23

    Vger23 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Not much about S3 irritated me or "grinded my gears" per se....but I didn't find it as engaging as the past two seasons. I thought the character stuff was extremely well done, and I thought visually it was more refined than past seasons (frankly, it looked amazing), particularly with the gorgeous exterior stuff they did. I thought the new setting and premise was promising. I loved Admiral Vance and Adira as new additions to the extended cast.

    But, it just didn't excite me as much as S1 and S2. Maybe it's because we were missing a really compelling, edgy regular (Lorca). Maybe it's because the mystery of The Burn wasn't as interesting to me (Red Angel). Could be that it was more episodic and less serialized, making it seem smaller and less "important."

    So, while I didn't have me chomping at the bit to see what happens next, it didn't irritate me or grind my gears.

    EDIT: Something DID grind my gears....I forgot! I did not like the re-design of the USS Discovery.
     
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  17. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Cartoon Premium Member

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    More lube.
     
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  18. Deks

    Deks Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I don't understand why are people grossed out by the premise of making food out of feces? The Japanese were actually using human feces back in 2012 to create steaks. Obviously, they used bacteria in the feces and some other stuff and recombined it into actual edible meat (with the taste, texture and smell of meat).

    When you convert feces into base elements, they are no longer feces... its just raw material which is then converted into another atomic structure (aka apple, meal, boots, uniforms, etc.).
    Who cares if it came from feces? The point is, its no longer feces.

    Same with recycled urine being turned into water. It's no longer urine... its water.

    I mean, nature recycles matter in this fashion too (which is how you get more plants), etc.
     
  19. Vger23

    Vger23 Vice Admiral Admiral

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  20. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    People get grossed out by different things. My mom is completely grossed out by toes while I can't stand most things having to do with eyeballs. Feces is something that is pretty much treated as a disgusting topic so it is not surprising to me that people would react in such a way.

    I get it in principle but it doesn't mean there isn't a slight gross factor for some. People like what they like and are grossed out by other things.