I hate feces. Can't stand them. They are the worst.
Spoilers Things that grind my gears about S3
- Thread starter ED-209
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I hate feces. Can't stand them. They are the worst.
I wasn't really annoyed by the comment because essentially it is true, but was Admiral Vance just doing it to get a reaction from Osyraa, who surely would know the basics of replication technology.
It does freak people out saying that the food we grow comes from poo- but then that's a very simplistic way of putting it. Everything does come from everything; we are all simply atoms and molecules that are just rearranged in different manners to create different things, and those atoms and molecules rearrange themselves on a daily basis with us shedding skin that becomes dust and settles in the soil that eventually shares the same space with plants and food... The water we drink from a tap originally existed as sewage that was treated because it contains toxins that we originally excreted; from the water we drank from the tap... the natural cycle of living. Nature is a bit revolting when you dive deeper into it, but, the ultimate recycler of energy on this planet that keeps us alive.
It does freak people out saying that the food we grow comes from poo- but then that's a very simplistic way of putting it. Everything does come from everything; we are all simply atoms and molecules that are just rearranged in different manners to create different things, and those atoms and molecules rearrange themselves on a daily basis with us shedding skin that becomes dust and settles in the soil that eventually shares the same space with plants and food... The water we drink from a tap originally existed as sewage that was treated because it contains toxins that we originally excreted; from the water we drank from the tap... the natural cycle of living. Nature is a bit revolting when you dive deeper into it, but, the ultimate recycler of energy on this planet that keeps us alive.
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I liked the Earth succession as played in the show. Earth and Vulcan have always been portrayed as the core of the federation. Having both planets leave gives a sense of loss to the federation. It's weirder with a human dominated starfleet. I liked that Earth was shown to allow non-humans in their military and NiVar allow humans to be integrated in their society (better than Vulcan did with a Michael Burnham 950 years earlier).
I also read Vance's statement as a metaphor about the negotiations. Whether he's speaking to a small component of food production or the core, what he was alluding to was that, no matter what Osyria was going to offer, he had to look at it in the context of the Discovery hostage negotiation and her flagship's attempt to breach Federation HQ minutes earlier.
In as far as the reason: eh. It reminds me that, while TNG always had the heroes to save the day, sometimes it doesn't work out. I was surprised how little talk of killing Sukal happened, as he was an unacceptable security risk
I also read Vance's statement as a metaphor about the negotiations. Whether he's speaking to a small component of food production or the core, what he was alluding to was that, no matter what Osyria was going to offer, he had to look at it in the context of the Discovery hostage negotiation and her flagship's attempt to breach Federation HQ minutes earlier.
In as far as the reason: eh. It reminds me that, while TNG always had the heroes to save the day, sometimes it doesn't work out. I was surprised how little talk of killing Sukal happened, as he was an unacceptable security risk
The main reason people are grossed out is because they are taught to behave like that (different environmental factors) and they lack the scientific knowledge which would (for example) let them know that they aren't in fact ingesting feces or urine.
Yes, they are.
And I know the difference, have studied such things and am still grossed out by that. So, I guess I lack scientific knowledge too, regardless of what I know.
Starfleet is not a military, and it was always open to non-humans joining.
T'Pol for example in mid 22nd century.
I don't think SF is predominantly human dominated. To be fair, its a fairly vast organization (and it needs to be to serve Federation needs) and we've been shown mainly 'human' admiralty in the previous shows due to budget constraints... still, when you think about it, Discovery did showcase numerous species in Admiralty positions (not to mention a lot more alien races on SF ships).
Early on (when the Federation was founded), its possible that Federation Starfleet arose from the Earth Starfleet because Earth (at the time) was the one that brought Vulcans, Andorians and Tellarites together, and Humanity might have been seen as most 'neutral'... but we've seen that early on, even enlightened Vulcans had their reservations about joining Starfleet... it wasn't until 23rd century that a much more diverse Starfleet would take place, but the late 22nd century SF would have to have admirals from alien species (but for all we know, even early Federation had numerous alien species on each vessel - we just didn't see them because we hadn't really seen late 22nd century Federation Starfleet).
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Yes, they are.
And I know the difference, have studied such things and am still grossed out by that. So, I guess I lack scientific knowledge too, regardless of what I know.
Well, its possible you might be overtly emotional about the subject.
The concept of recycling food from waste is not something that's perceived as 'popular' in society, but mostly because its not mainstream and its not taught early on to both parents and kids.
Also, what specifically about it grosses you out?
Take feces... sure, its bad looking, even smell foul, etc... however, in medical science, its used as a transplant to replenish beneficial bacteria in other people's bodies for example whose own microbiobe is not healthy (which is usually a product of their lifestyle).
Most people aren't aware where their food is coming from and don't really make the connection in their heads (for example when eating animals) despite technically understanding they are eating animals.
Once they start seeing the footage of what goes on in slaughterhouses (for example) and the fact they are paying others to carve up animals, well, a LOT of people start changing their minds.
Something similar needs to be done about recycling as well... plus, on average, Humanity on a global level recycles very little (sans certain outlying countries)... and this process isn't really talked about a lot.
It didn't matter. He knew Osyraa led a life of privilege and would react to the idea poorly.
I grew up next to a farm. I am fully aware of where food comes from.
That it is waste products, the smell, how ill it can make people if not handled appropriately, among other reasons. I am fully aware that there are benefits, how the gut works, how bacteria are beneficial, diet, exercise, etc. It's still gross to me. That something is helpful or beneficial doesn't preclude the possibility of an emotional reaction. The two can be true at the same time.
Agreed. Looks daft when you see it. Sounds daft when you hear them talk about it. Daft that they float there at impulse yet they reattach for spore jumps and warp speed. Just seems to be a lot if extra engineering to fix a problem that never existed.
Don't think it actually looks particularly kewl either.
Didn't really bother me TBH. Seemed like a bit of a wasted opportunity just to use it for a Scooby-Doo 'the aliens were humans in masks all along' story.
Beyond stupid. Blinking at a hologram shuts them down? Wow...
'Look we can say naughty words like shit and fuck now, aren't we edgy'
Nearly as stupid as blinking at holograms.
I expected it to have been caused by the Discovery 120 years earlier in some way as it 'passed by' travelling forward in time so I guess some credit is due for surprising me.
The whole 'unborn child affected by it's environment' meaning the kid is born with dilithium powers because he was born on a dilithium planet is pretty crazy though TBF.
Eh, it's a silly and seemingly pointless development, but I have no strong feelings on the matter beyond that.
That was an excellent idea, and I hope Earth gets revisited in the fourth season.
Okay, I can't really argue with this one.
It's been part of fanon for years, now it's canon.
Season 2 already committed that sin, season 3 just made advancements to it.
Sure, but it was pretty obvious right from the start the cause of the Burn would be anticlimactic.
That honestly would have ruined the whole series for me. So I am extremely grateful for something different. Even if it was a bit outlandish. Star Trek is all about outlandish so bring it on.
I actually really liked Earth wasn't part of the Federation. I was let down though that the Federation is still apparently a human-dominated club.
I mean, there's something wonderful about the ideals of the Federation being pushed forward in troubling times by entirely different races than those who originally built it up. That ultimately it's loyalty to an idea, not a race.
I mean, there's something wonderful about the ideals of the Federation being pushed forward in troubling times by entirely different races than those who originally built it up. That ultimately it's loyalty to an idea, not a race.
That makes sense, but test of what?
i don’t think it was ever shown a replicator needing matter to replicate something. In fact the self-replicating mines used in DS9 quite obviously ran on energy alone, being self-sustaining in places with no or very little matter.
What she knows.
Plus people use shit to fertilize their fields. It's actually a lot healthier than the synthetic stuff.
I have issues with Season Three, but literally none of those are on my list.
Perhaps, but so did many other people and they didn't make the connection between their meals and dismembered animal parts with lots of blood (or non-human animal screams, obvious pain/torture they are under - despite of how 'nice' or 'humane' the farmers make out the process to be on the surface) until they actually saw it for themselves or were asked to take the animals' life.
Yes, some people are raised to be hunters, but in order to do so, they also need to desensitize a person to killing for one thing and also allow you to perceive non-human animals (and make no mistake, humans are animals as well) as 'lesser' than humans (which realistically, they aren't) - and just for reference, people who DO work in slaughterhouses actually end up with a variety of disorders (such as PTSD and a bit less well know PITS).
There might be more to this line of thinking which you might not have included in your thought process (but admittedly, I do not personally know you, therefore, I cannot presume to know what you think or how you feel or what you may or may not know).
By that reasoning, shouldn't the concept of eating regular food disgust you as well?
Majority of food we eat is fertilized by non-human animal waste (which is degraded by bacteria, worms, etc. in the soil and then used to 'feed' the plants - which end up in your mouth).
Heck, how many humans were buried throughout history only to become worm food and something for the plants to thrive on (which we eventually end up eating in one way or another).
As for how ill it can make people if not handled appropriately (or how bad it smells)... sure.. there's a possibility for that... much like there's a possibility of food poisoning from ingesting salmonella which contaminated the plants due to animal feces that came into contact with it (practically very little to none if you handle the food properly and wash the produce in question - oh btw, animal products turned into food for humans are far more frequently contaminated and recalled compared to plant foods).
Recycling is essentially a process that not only removes contaminants, it re-arranges the matter base structure to the point where that matter becomes a completely different form - essentially its a far cleaner and more controlled process than I'd say nature even (especially if automated).
I really don't see the rationale behind the feeling of disgust because the things you describe about recycling (at least from your perspective) apply to how we grow plants.
And by that line of thinking, if recycling in the 21st century can be efficient, sustainable and produce all kinds of things with better quality without there even being a hint of what it originated from (which it can and does), you can bet that Star Trek 32nd century atomic rearrangement of matter would be far more efficient, cleaner, safer and probably contain more nutrients than what a 'real apple' can provide (in fact... it can probably also be made to be sweeter and nicer tasting than the real thing - so this 'concept' that replicated food is somehow inferior is actually bogus and further reinforces the premise the writers don't understand certain things or are just plain lazy).
Some times it does. The whole process of being human is kind of disgusting some times, when you think about it.
Because emotions are not rational.
No doubt and no where did I argue against it at all. 32nd century technology is no doubt far superior than our own.
Doesn't change my emotions one lick.
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