"These Are the Voyages" as a 'true' series finale

[1001001]

Phlox was the de facto counselor on the ship. We saw people going to him for advice. The Beebs cooked up (sorry) "Chef" Riker to give their golden boy a chance to clock more voyeur screen time. Chef was out of character like all the rest of the cast, and we didn't even know him! *facepalm*

And that Riker kiss on T'Pol's cheek was a creepy barf fest. The stuff of nightmares.

So, you're saying you didn't care for it?

 

[Kor]

If Riker had gone back in time and kissed the actual T'Pol without her consent while she was physically unable to move, then it would have been problematic. But this was a non-sentient holographic projection. I imagine we would all do stuff on the holodeck that we would never do in real life.

Kor

 

[Prax]

Keep in mind, T'Pol is twice his age. It's like giving grandma a kiss.



...well...maybe not quite like that

 

[Hopeful Romantic]

So, you're saying you didn't care for it?

If Riker had gone back in time and kissed the actual T'Pol without her consent while she was physically unable to move, then it would have been problematic. But this was a non-sentient holographic projection. I imagine we would all do stuff on the holodeck that we would never do in real life.

Kor

The whole crew was a bunch of holographic projections! It was their final show and they weren't even there! They were reduced to bunch of holo-puppets for Riker to play house with, totally unrecognizable as our beloved crew. Trip, after being all clever and MacGyvery in the previous episode, committing suicide in a dopey stunt worthy of the Darwin Award Hall of Fame? Hoshi complaining about her nosebleed seat? Trip and T'Pol apparently breaking up like 5 minutes after that last scene in Terra Prime, so sad but beautifully hopeful? And then Riker, the interloper, the buttinski who can't figure his way out of his little moral dilemma without stomping through a ghastly parody of my Enterprise world (sheesh, no wonder he kept turning down ship commands), I have to watch this wembler maul T'Pol???

YES IT WAS PROBLEMATIC FOR ME.

Keep in mind, T'Pol is twice his age. It's like giving grandma a kiss.



...well...maybe not quite like that

Brain scrub! Augh!

My dear gentle members, you can't put lipstick on a pig. Try as you might, you will never get The Thing to work for me. It was a bleeping train wreck.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Lock up your daughters, Riker and Troi are back to ruin another Trek series!

(Maybe they'll sneak in a reference to inaccurate historical holorograms and all will be forgiven)

 

[suarezguy]

For another, the Abrams films, which came years after Voyager, were the most successful Star Trek productions ever created, whether one loves them or hates them.

'09 was really successful, the sequels not so successful considering what they cost to make.

Even without Riker and Troi appearing in the finale, jumping 6 years ahead would have been very odd and would have resulted in a lot of choices and decisions about what happened to the characters being very love it or hate it. In particular a lot of the fans would have hated if, even if Trip hadn't died, the finale did reveal that he and T'Pol hadn't gotten together.

 

[dreamsaremadeofthis]

So I went and rewatched this utter piece of crap of an episode just to see the scene in question. While I'm absolutely no apologist for TATV, I will say that my interpretation of the wink scene is different from yours. Trip is in sickbay with Archer, Phlox and two other ofiicers. If Trip really was faking it all, there'd be no reason to keep that info from Phlox (who would know if he was faking anyway) or any other Starfleet officers in the room. Unless the wink was improvised by Trineer and Bakula just went along with it, Trip's winking just seemed to be an indication that he'd think he'd pull through, with Archer supporting that feeling by winking back. Of course, the very next scene shows that this didn't happen.

Now, of course, I could take this opportunity to say how utterly ridiculous it was that no one else, not even T'Pol and Archer, had a reaction to Trip's death in any way, even though it literally just happened right before the signing scene. Everyone's all smiling and happy, and acting completely oblivious that one of their closest crewmates who'd they'd been serving with for ten years just died in the dumbest way ever.

But I won't go there.

First, I enjoyed the finale.
Second, Trip would have been suffering in agonizing pain from his injuries. When he winked and smiled at Archer, there was no pain in his face.
Third, immediately after Trip winked and smiled at Archer, Archer looked straight at Phlox with a knowing eyes. I have always believed his death was faked.
The lack of T'Pol's reaction as she packed up Trip's things - well, she wasn't really non-reactive. She smelled of his uniform. She wanted to meet his parents. I believe she wanted to meet them for a reason. They had already lost his sister, Elizabeth. T'Pol didn't look the way I'd think she would if she knew he was dead. I believe she, Archer, and Phlox were in on it.
I just watched it for maybe the fourth time last night on H&I. I own the series, and this episode is one of my faves.

 

[JesterFace]

It's been many years since I last visited ENT. I guess mostly because my ENT DVDs are in crap condition.
What does this have to do with this topic?
Now that the series is available online I plan to watch it in the near future but I might not revisit this episode.
I have to find something to replace it as series finale.

 

[Phoenix219]

Post series, you have to watch the fanfilm Horizon.

 

[dreamsaremadeofthis]

First, I enjoyed the finale.
Second, Trip would have been suffering in agonizing pain from his injuries. When he winked and smiled at Archer, there was no pain in his face.
Third, immediately after Trip winked and smiled at Archer, Archer looked straight at Phlox with a knowing eyes. I have always believed his death was faked.
The lack of T'Pol's reaction as she packed up Trip's things - well, she wasn't really non-reactive. She smelled of his uniform. She wanted to meet his parents. I believe she wanted to meet them for a reason. They had already lost his sister, Elizabeth. T'Pol didn't look the way I'd think she would if she knew he was dead. I believe she, Archer, and Phlox were in on it.
I just watched it for maybe the fourth time last night on H&I. I own the series, and this episode is one of my faves.

Further, T'Pol not long before had grabbed Trip and kissed him and asked him not to go back to the Columbia. And in the finale, Trip was pointedly adamant that he and T'Pol would always be in touch. Plus - Trip and T'Pol were bonded. She would know immediately any time he was injured, and definitely if he were dying or dead. She did not respond to his injury nor death in that way.

 

[WebLurker]

First, I enjoyed the finale.
Second, Trip would have been suffering in agonizing pain from his injuries. When he winked and smiled at Archer, there was no pain in his face.
Third, immediately after Trip winked and smiled at Archer, Archer looked straight at Phlox with a knowing eyes. I have always believed his death was faked.
The lack of T'Pol's reaction as she packed up Trip's things - well, she wasn't really non-reactive. She smelled of his uniform. She wanted to meet his parents. I believe she wanted to meet them for a reason. They had already lost his sister, Elizabeth. T'Pol didn't look the way I'd think she would if she knew he was dead. I believe she, Archer, and Phlox were in on it.
I just watched it for maybe the fourth time last night on H&I. I own the series, and this episode is one of my faves.

Further, T'Pol not long before had grabbed Trip and kissed him and asked him not to go back to the Columbia. And in the finale, Trip was pointedly adamant that he and T'Pol would always be in touch. Plus - Trip and T'Pol were bonded. She would know immediately any time he was injured, and definitely if he were dying or dead. She did not respond to his injury nor death in that way.

It was a holodeck simulation, not an archived recording or a flashback to the real events.

 

[Prax]

There's a God camera that's omnipresent and always recording, and allows them to recreate events completely and perfectly.

 

[F. King Daniel]

There's a God camera that's omnipresent and always recording, and allows them to recreate events completely and perfectly.

Except in episodes like "The Minagerie" where they're all stunned that there is footage of "The Cage"

Then skip ahead to Star Trek III and they have flight recorder footage from the Enterprise complete with camera angle changes and zooms (i.e. footage from Star Trek II)

 

[at Quark's]

This episode is an example where the mock title "These Are the Voyeurs" would actually have fitted better.

 

[Prax]

Except in episodes like "The Minagerie" where they're all stunned that there is footage of "The Cage"

Then skip ahead to Star Trek III and they have flight recorder footage from the Enterprise complete with camera angle changes and zooms (i.e. footage from Star Trek II)

They didn't learn how to access the god camera until the late 23rd century.

 

[dreamsaremadeofthis]

There's a God camera that's omnipresent and always recording, and allows them to recreate events completely and perfectly.

And we know that's true from TOS "Court Martial."

 

[bookworm8571]

I refuse to watch that episode. For me, it does not exist. From what I have heard, I doubt removing the Star Trek Next Generation characters would have improved it or made it make sense.

 

[Reanok]

Worst episode and excuse for a finale ever.Connor and Jolene refused to go the wrap party to watch that finale. Anthony Montgomery refuses to watch it too. Jonathan Frakes said in a youtube video video he thought the Enterprise cast were treated badly just being hologram characters in their own finale.Brannon Braga says the only time Scott Backula was mad at him and lost his temper was after he read the script for the finale and called and told Brannon what he thought of it.Years later he and Berman admitted it was a big mistake and they shouldn't have done that crappy finale.

 

[dreamsaremadeofthis]

Worst episode and excuse for a finale ever.Connor and Jolene refused to go the wrap party to watch that finale. Anthony Montgomery refuses to watch it too. Jonathan Frakes said in a youtube video video he thought the Enterprise cast wre treated badly just being hologram characters in their own finale.Brannon Braga says the only time Scott Backula was mad at him and lost his temper was after he read the script for the finale and called and told what he thought of it.Years later he and Berman admitted it was a big mistake and they shouldn't have done that crappy finale.

I still liked it and enjoyed it. I save all my ST outrage for the movie Generations and disgusting insult it was to Captain Kirk. And I was 13 in 1966 when ST was new and I went through decades of all the series and movies. Generations puts any complaint I have against anything ST in perspective.

 

[fireproof78]

Except in episodes like "The Minagerie" where they're all stunned that there is footage of "The Cage"

Where do you think they got the idea?