"These Are the Voyages" as a 'true' series finale

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Enterprise' started by Damian, Jan 13, 2019.

  1. Rahul

    Rahul Commodore Commodore

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    I mean, such a tribute to that whole era could have worked - IF they really had the means to honor ALL the era! Like Picard appearing, Janeway, someone from DS9, and in an original story (like the cast of the TNG era series coming together finding an artefact of the NX-01, and recreating their final journey or something).

    But, having only Riker and Troi, and a lazy Data-voice cameo - and shoving all of it in as a side-plot for a regular mid-season TNG episode really was a slap to everyone involved. "What, your series ended? Too bad, you're not as important as this one(!) character moment from one(!) episode twenty years ago."
     
  2. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    This makes no sense?
     
  3. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I believe the episode was originally written for early in season 2, then continually put off until it was finally filmed at the end. If it had been a one-off episode in the middle of the season, would you have found it offensive, then?
     
  4. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    You do not have the slightest idea what you're talking about.

    I know I wouldn't have. The concept of people from the future looking back at past events is an intriguing premise, although the way it was done in TATV left a LOT to be desired. However, if it was just a second-season episode (and excising Trip dying in the stupidest way imaginable), I probably would have just written it off as "yeah, Frakes and Sirtis are trying to worm their way back into Trek, but I honestly really don't care because I don't care about this entire show all that much."
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
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  5. comics1996

    comics1996 Ensign Red Shirt

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    What I meant was that enterprise was the start of the modern trek that isn't worth watching. So after voyager was cancelled it was the beginning of the end when it comes to good trek.
     
  6. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    In Jeff Lebowski voice: "Yeah, that's like, your opinion, man."

    if that's the way you feel, great. But don't act like you're speaking for the rest of us.
     
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  7. comics1996

    comics1996 Ensign Red Shirt

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    Just look at the ratings though for enterprise and that there are a fair amount of people that are members if I hate star trek discovery and you thought that it hasn't been the same since star trek voyager. Also the way I was wording it wasting speaking for everyone here.
     
  8. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    You specifically said that "after Voyager was cancelled (it wasn't cancelled actually) it was the beginning of the end when it comes to good Trek." That statement, even if it is just your opinion, is patently false. For one thing, there is no such thing as "good Trek" because what one person thinks is 'good Trek' another person may think is crappy Trek, and vice versa. For another, the Abrams films, which came years after Voyager, were the most successful Star Trek productions ever created, whether one loves them or hates them.
     
  9. Phoenix219

    Phoenix219 Commodore Commodore

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    If it was done during Season 2, it may have actually *helped* by giving people the "it could just be a holo-story error" explanation for any perceived canon violations.
     
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  10. Timewalker

    Timewalker Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady Premium Member

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    They might have made the most money, but they were not successful at entertaining me. In fact, the first one was rerun on the Space Channel last night and I gave it about 2 minutes of my time before I turned it off and went back to my digital paint by number project on the computer.

    I've been watching a few Enterprise episodes lately, and finally saw this series "finale." I still don't like Enterprise, but I will admit that this episode was crap and a real slap in the face to the cast and fans.

    Dear present and future Star Trek spinoff producers: Having Marina Sirtis guest on one of your shows is NOT the way to improve it, especially if the storyline makes no sense and/or is condescending to the characters of whichever show may be applicable. For some reason she was brought onto several Voyager episodes as well, and did nothing to improve them.
     
  11. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Sirtis was brought on to 2 or 3 Barclay episodes. Barclay worked out pretty good on VOY, and Troi is his therapist, so it's an excuse to bring Troi back. Crossovers are generally a good thing, and probably help ratings. I bet if Trip lived and it was movie era Riker and Troi, no one would have an issue with this episode.
     
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  12. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Which only proves my point that "good Trek" is entirely subjective. But he was specifically talking about ratings/revenue.

    Which was what they should have done in the first place, whether it was a season 2 episode or the series finale. There was no good reason whatsoever why TATV had to be shoehorned into the "Pegasus" episode. It was just Berman & Braga wanting to relive their TNG days, which had absolutely nothing to do with ENT.
     
  13. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I should also mention that it wasn't originally supposed to be Riker, but shatner who ended up being the cook, and having some other method of integrating him into the story, but he was too expensive, and wouldn't budge on his acting price. That may have been interesting.
     
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  14. Timewalker

    Timewalker Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady Premium Member

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    I have no problem with Barclay. I like him. But I began to detest Troi and Marina Sirtis' acting choices well before TNG was over. That slaawpy, draawly voice just irritates me like nails on a chalkboard.
     
  15. sekundant

    sekundant Captain Captain

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    No, you are totally wrong with your assuming. Here is a platform for the people who will talking/ thinking/ sharing about ENT, they shouldn't be fans but most of them has respect to ENT and ENT fans.

    ENT ratings were not bad, they have second best ratings of UPN drama series, although they have to fight against continuously budget reducing and great egos of BnB. Mr. Les #MeToo Moonves decided that sitcoms are more profitable with less production costs. So, if he had the position before we wouldn't have TNG, DS9 or VOY, he didn't care. Even I found this at youtube:


    I don't know if it is realized but Kevin Federline (anyone still remember him?) Reality Show should replace the ENT. That's what Mr. Moonves wanted. :censored:

    For me ENT is best Trek Show (TOS out of competition) since it is about hope, meaning of being human, getting mature, it is pure Trek spirit for me. If I am honest, I cannot identify my self with idealized protagonist of TNG, I am not happy with religious fanaticism, rowdiness and darkness at DS9, I am not very fond of self repairing ship with psycho captain of VOY, I am not enjoying always hard watchable TAS, I think Kelvin Timeline is so customer/consumer friendly, but they are all Trek and I love them with their all weakness/strengths.

    Well, your opinion is your opinion, not the facts. ;)
     
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  16. Roundabout

    Roundabout Commander Red Shirt

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    Riker and Troi were interlopers. They had no business being in the ENT series finale, let alone having an oversized role in the episode. ENT had done fine without any TNG crossover episodes.

    The worst part might have been the chef Riker scenes. It was absurd that the ENT crew had to turn to chef Riker, the interloper, as the person for each of the crew members to confide in.

    Was not one of the regular crew members good enough to fill that role in their own show, that the producers had to bring in a has-been from a previous show?

    In fairness, those chef Riker scenes were somewhat amusing. But really, chef Riker was a major distraction. Whose show is it anyway? It took away what should have been quality time with the regular cast. By the way, we never got to see the "real" ENT chef at any time during the series, at least not his face.

    In effect, Riker's presence hijacked the finale.
     
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  17. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Enterprise had two finales. One was Terra Prime, the planned series finale by the showrunner, which concluded story arcs and character arcs and themes from the first 4 seasons, other is T.A.T.V. an epilogue episode taking place ten years later. They both aired on the same day.
     
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  18. Roundabout

    Roundabout Commander Red Shirt

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    I didn't see either episode when they originally aired. It won't necessarily change my opinion, but I am curious, which one aired first?
     
  19. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Terra Prime. They aired as a sort of double feature.

    Edit:
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019
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  20. HopefulRomantic

    HopefulRomantic hyperpolypyroferricist Moderator

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    Phlox was the de facto counselor on the ship. We saw people going to him for advice. The Beebs cooked up (sorry) "Chef" Riker to give their golden boy a chance to clock more voyeur screen time. Chef was out of character like all the rest of the cast, and we didn't even know him! *facepalm*

    And that Riker kiss on T'Pol's cheek was a creepy barf fest. The stuff of nightmares. :ack: :ack: :ack:
     
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