"These Are the Voyages" as a 'true' series finale
- Thread starter Damian
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Spock said there are others like him... Tilly could use Trip and T'Pol to make a comparison. Nice and easy retcon/clarification. (And after all, isn't that what Discovery does best, anyways? May as well put it to good use....)
Oh so true. I don't think anything can salvage that piece of crap. It's like Highlander II. No matter how many re-cuts or whatever people make, it will always be a terrible episode and an even worse finale.
Semi-OT but I think this is still probably the best place, I don't think the proper, true series finale, "Terra Prime" (or even considering "Demons" and "Terra Prime" as one, though the first part was better), was particularly good as either an episode or finale. There was too much of the conspiracy-plotting which was underwhelming and didn't always make sense and it felt like a cheat to have the weapon fire but miss.
And we did get a conclusion of sorts to the Trip and T'Pol relationship (in a way that could be interpreted very differently and so please a lot of viewers) but, understandably, not much conclusion for the other characters.
And we did get a conclusion of sorts to the Trip and T'Pol relationship (in a way that could be interpreted very differently and so please a lot of viewers) but, understandably, not much conclusion for the other characters.
We deserved a proper two-hour finale after "Terra Prime." Written to be the finale, and thus well-planned and satisfying to the loyal and long-suffering fans who had persevered through inconsistent writing, being stuck on a truly craptastic pseudo-networkette that pre-empted the show more than they promoted it, a truncated run that robbed us of 3 glorious seasons of a show that had found its groove (the Romulan War would have been awesome), and storylines that really needed satisfying closure.
But we got the Thing.
Of course "Terra Prime" was better for a lot of us. I liked it because it hit a lot of satisfying emotional chords for me. Peter Weller was great. I loved Archer's speech. I really loved the Trip/T'Pol scenes after they rescued Elizabeth, even though they were heartbreaking. The last moment with the two of them holding hands with the IDIC, that was so lovely. It was hopeful. I sooo wanted to see more.
But we got the Thing.
Of course "Terra Prime" was better for a lot of us. I liked it because it hit a lot of satisfying emotional chords for me. Peter Weller was great. I loved Archer's speech. I really loved the Trip/T'Pol scenes after they rescued Elizabeth, even though they were heartbreaking. The last moment with the two of them holding hands with the IDIC, that was so lovely. It was hopeful. I sooo wanted to see more.
The only thing that would have made that episode any better was not making it at all.
Well, I wouldn't go that far. ENT definitely needed a finale episode, and Demons/Terra Prime really didn't work as one (I think most people consider it the 'true' finale only because TATV sucked so bad). But even within the confines of what UPN gave them, they still could have come up with something better.
No. In the true tradition of TOS which ENT preceded timelinewise no finale at all was needed.
In fact let's send Turnabout Intruder and TATV off in a shuttle and let them consume each other. All Our Yesterdays and Demons/Terra Prime can then sit there, well loved episodes, the bookends but not finales of some mostly fine Star Trek.
I’m not sure if you’re just making a joke here, but ENT definitely needed a series finale, as TNG, DS9 and VOY all had one, and if there had been foresight back in 1969, TOS would have had one too.
While I’m no fan of ENT, at the least there should have been a finale that was better than TATV.
A logical finale would have been the founding of the Federation and the aftermath of the Romulan war. I don't understand why fat Riker had to appear and Trip die a pointless death and for it all to be on the Enterprise D's Holodeck. I watched it again recently and it's even worse and more infuriating than I remembered.
It happened because Berman and Braga genuinely thought it would be a good idea. They were obviously wrong. The ironic thing about it is that B&B have gotten over it years ago, while the fandom will simply never get over it (myself included, and I didn’t even care for ENT all that much.)
Same here. And it made perfect sense for a follow up in the next episode. A lot of emotions, tensions with alien powers and things to explore.
I would remove all TNG elements from it. The whole "looking back over the journey" idea could be good, if handled correctly, so get the characters (who are still living) in aged up makeup and set it in in 2245 (though don't reveal that until the end).
Have the crew interviewed by a reporter on events that happened after the Terra Prime Incident, such as the Romulan War, formation of the Federation, launch of the Daedalus-Class, etc. The losses and triumphs they faced, the people no longer with them, and so forth, how what they did formed the basis of all that would come after it.
The last interview is with Archer as he is on the shuttle to the launching of the U.S.S. Enterprise NCC-1701, where he meets Captain Robert April and wishes them well on their mission.
Have the crew interviewed by a reporter on events that happened after the Terra Prime Incident, such as the Romulan War, formation of the Federation, launch of the Daedalus-Class, etc. The losses and triumphs they faced, the people no longer with them, and so forth, how what they did formed the basis of all that would come after it.
The last interview is with Archer as he is on the shuttle to the launching of the U.S.S. Enterprise NCC-1701, where he meets Captain Robert April and wishes them well on their mission.
Actually, I think Demons/Terra Prime worked perfectly as a final episode two-parter!
There might have been some plot holes on the way, but it perfectly wrapped the entire series arc up. The ship started out to explore the unknown, and in the final episode, everyone is back at home, with the new friends they made on their journey, forming an alliance to build the Feddration.
Heck, Archer even gets to hold a speech in front of everyone summarizing the series! All the different relationships (especially T'Pol/Trip) are put to a new place. And it truly looks like the original mission of the NX-01 is finished. That if she's start again, it would be for an entirely new mission, probably with a new crew compliment as well. It was a perfect, intimate, ambigious but still definite ending to all the series' major arcs and themes.
Precisely so. I don't consider that two parter the finale because TATV is bad. I consider it the finale because it makes sense. It flows very well from the general themes of the series, with Archer's general distrust for Vulcans moving towards the more inclusive view, in contrast to Paxton and his view.
Absolutely! I think a lot of the complaint comes from it being a rather small story. Paxton is not a world-ending villain, and there is no giant battle or anything, it's a rather personal and small story. But IMO it really well captures the overall theme and course of the series and gives a great, open-enden conclustion!
As for "TATV" - it didn't work for SO many reasons. But if I had to make a fast rewrite to fix it, I would change one major thing: That it's not "7 years farting around on the ship off-screen". But it's "getting the band together for one final mission". Like all the crew got back together on the ship for a celebration mission, and Archer decides to use that to steer the ship off course for a personal mission, of helping his old frenemy Shran.
It is a very personal battle with very large consequences, as the delegates to form the Federation are leaving. There is a lot more at stake than it appears at first blush.
If they wanted Riker and Troi in the episode, they should have just gone ahead and fully broken continuity: They should have had Captain Riker and the Titan end up back in time meeting Archer and the NX-01 - and had Riker accidentally do something that permanently alters the timeline. You want a meaningless but not stupid death that still honors Trip? Okay, well, when the Titan shows up, it distracts Trip Tucker at a crucial moment and gets him killed. And it turns out he was pretty important to the future. This leads eventually to Star Trek '09, and a Starfleet that never had Tucker's inventions and insights but DID have tech knowledge from the Titan in an attempt to compensate.
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