The Walking Dead Season 4

[wissaboo]

I would not be surprised if the Governor wanted to either rule the prison or kill them all. First, he'd have to work on undermining Rick's authority to prime the situation and make them ready to win their hearts and minds when he comes to the rescue of a situation Rick had lost control of. (I know I'm just spitballing).

Yeah, and what's the chances of those people from Woodbury remembering how he shot down a good portion of their group, or how he humiliated Maggie, oversaw Glenn's torture, killed Daryl's brother Merle, and made a walker kill Andrea? One mistake by Rick and they'll accept him. Michelle would even be his bride.

I hope you caught the sarcasm, I laid it on pretty thick.

Nothing a few bullets and blindfolds wouldn't take care of. He could give them a choice - fall in line or eat a bullet. Or the scream pits.

Think about the Governor's motivations right now. He has in fact been lurking around the prison. Why?

To kill them all for revenge.
To kill a few of them and take over
To kill all or a few to move in.
To kill a few of them and leave? I don't think so. His megalomania won't let him stop there.

I feel he is going to kill anyone who doesn't swear fealty to him. Or maybe kill them all.

Either he is responsible for the buildup of fence Walkers - or he isn't, and has been sitting on his hands watching grass grow.

fealty is a word that is just not used often enough.

 

[propita]

Well, the trailer for next week showed the Governor all by himself. What happened to the other two guys? He killed them? They up and left? They just weren't in the scene?

 

[Silvercrest]

^If you're talking about Shane, Rick didn't do exactly what Carol did.

I think he's talking about Rick making the unilateral decision to exile Carol (which realistically could result in her death). Carol also made a unilateral decision to deal with the the infected. He's certainly a hypocrite in that respect.

Exactly.

One man's hypocrisy is another man's poetic justice.

Carol seems to see the bigger picture, while hypocritical Rick lives in the moment--guided by warped emotionalism.

There's no "right" decision in this kind of situation. If the characters are going to err anyway, let them err on the side of compassion. If cold pragmatism and "do whatever's necessary to stay alive" are what it takes to keep the human race going, and that's all the next generation learns, then you wind up with a bunch of heartless bastards who know nothing but survival. Humanity was saved ... at the cost of their humanity. Is that even worth it? Especially if they're being tested as Hershel surmised.

"It's not enough to survive... One has to be worthy of survival." -- William Adama

I'm just waitng for the return of Carol. That will be interesting.

That's certainly true!

You are seriously deluded if you think Carol is going to turn aggressive towards the group.

After seeing what happened to Morgan, anything is possible.

Think about the Governor's motivations right now. He has in fact been lurking around the prison. Why?

I feel he is going to kill anyone who doesn't swear fealty to him. Or maybe kill them all.

Either he is responsible for the buildup of fence Walkers - or he isn't, and has been sitting on his hands watching grass grow.

fealty is a word that is just not used often enough.

Philip needs a promotion from The Governor to The King. "Hail to The King, baby." He's got enough resemblance to Bruce Campbell; he could pull it off.

 

[RJDiogenes]

Exactly. They both made their decisions and acted on them without consulting the group.

But Rick didn't kill Carol for her actions.

I would argue that Rick did condemn Carol to death.

Carol has morphed into a person that is more than capable in their new world, but sending her out on her own is dooming her.

One wrong thrust, car troubles or any number of scenarios could end in her being zombie snack without backup.

Plus, he made a decision that could potentially rip apart their small band.

Maggie and Herschel understood, but that does not mean that everyone is going to.

Did he put Judith and Carl in more peril, by deciding Carol's punishment without consulting anyone? I would say yes.

Agreed.

 

[Takeru]

Boat has got to dock to restock. The sad truth is that they are only about 300-350 miles away from one of the best places on the entire continent to live. Certainly where people in central Georgia should have been heading all along

Cumberland Island off the southern most coast of Georgia. [...]
There's no mainland bridges to it. It's big, relatively undeveloped, warm climate, fishing, game, fresh water lakes, some existing buildings, & the authorities don't allow more than 300 people on it at any given time. So clearing out walkers wouldn't be too tough really.

What makes you think the island isn't infested with thousands of walkers by now? How many people the authorities allow on it means nothing during the apocalypse, a barely populated island would have become a very attractive destination very fast, it is very unlikely that they'd only have to deal with 300 walkers.

 

[Mojochi]

^ Still, with no bridges to it, it limits the amount of people that would be flocking to it, & once cleared, it would be easier to keep that way. Most people took to their cars, as we saw in early scenes of roads. Civilization fell pretty quickly, maybe a few weeks? I still see it being well under 1000, & isolated well enough that it would be worth the effort of taking & clearing. Once it's safe, it would be a whole new world

Sure as hell beats the idea of going to a military bas or a prison, or a metropolis

 

[Scout101]

That said, what should he have done? Bringing her back would have fractured the group, and likely forced her to be executed.

...do you think the group will not be fractured when everyone discovers Carol's fate?

Less so with only one side of the story being told, and the decision already made. Don't have to look her in the eyes, don't have to agonize over the decision. Even if you don't accept it, it's already gone. Your only choice now is if you want to get rid of Rick, too.

So yeah, best case, Ty doesn't beat her to death, and they're forced to have a trial. She did it, and admitted it. After causing huge divides in the group, she's either executed or banished (best case) anyway. And the group is messed up because of it.

Where's this "execution" business coming from? Do you think Daryl would stand by and let Tyrese assault Carol?

Come on.

Do you think you can guard her 24/7? She killed your gf, and we've proven he's prone to flipping out, Carol would get it eventually. And as for execution, what's the 'jury' supposed to do in this new wasteland? They already LIVE in a jail, and can't afford to be carrying dead weight that doesn't help out. Options are to just let it slide (come on, she killed two people), execute her (eye for an eye and whatnot, plus can't trust her), or banishment. If you're arguing that banishment wasn't right, what's left? Can't let it go, can't have her around...

 

[PKerr]

Well, the trailer for next week showed the Governor all by himself. What happened to the other two guys? He killed them? They up and left? They just weren't in the scene?

The extended sneak peak shows the Governor sitting at a camp fire deep in thought, A walker approaches, trips over the fire and lands at his feet and he doesn't react and then Martinez pops out and shoots it in the head, IMDB lists the other guy Shumpert as well as a few new characters named Don played by Danny Vinson, Allen played by Daniel Thomas May ( he is listed for 7 episodes, some older but I don't remember him ), Melody played Audrey Marie Anderson, an unknown played by Meyrick Murphy and The Walking Dead Wiki lists Laura, maybe the unknown little girl is her daughter.


Edit to add: I remember Allen now.

 

[PKerr]

So something that I have been thinking about for a few episodes now, the whole plot with Carol killing Karen & David and her reactions to Rick just seemed "ODD" to me, what if Lizzy was the one that actually killed Karen & David and Carol is covering for her?
The way she was playing with the blood kinda re-enforced my original thought on that and if you think about it, it would be an easy out to bring Carol back, are you going to kill or banish a little girl?
Maybe she did it because of what happened with Carol and her father? And remember Mika (her sister) did say to Carol, Lizzie isn't weak just messed up, She might be the female version of Ben in the comics and the circumstances are almost the same.

OR

What if it was Carl and Carol is covering for him?

The semi spoiler page I listed earlier did say that episode 9 was going to be a big one for Carl, what if the mid-season finale has the group banishing Carl? Herschel already thinks he is a bit trigger happy already and Tyreese wouldn't be too happy with him, Daryl wouldn't be happy with Rick for jumping to conclusions with Carol and may think him and Carl need to be banished, wadda ya think? It would make for some nice plot twists.

 

[marillion]

^^ Damn! Interesting thought there...

 

[Pavonis]

... Daryl wouldn't be happy with Rick for jumping to conclusions with Carol....

Interesting theory! It's plausible, in my opinion. And yet, Rick was not "jumping to conclusions", since Carol blatantly admitted killing K&D.

I don't think Daryl is blinded by love or infatuation with Carol. I mean, really, how close are they? He likes having her around, and they're apparently quite close, but if she killed someone, I don't think he's going to go crazy with grief over her banishment. He's pragmatic about life in the post-apocalyptic world, and I don't think he'd condone the murders just to have Carol back.

We will see, though.

 

[Mojochi]

I've heard the "Lizzie did it" theory before, and though it's not out of the realm of possibility, why wouldn't Carol tell someone about it? We can be pretty sure they won't kill or banish a disturbed little girl. Why lie? Especially to Rick, who's supposed to be a trusted person to Carol, and also a parent to a boy who's had similar difficulties. What good comes from lying to Rick?

If she can't be honest with Rick after all this time, maybe it's still best that they aren't in a group together

 

[PKerr]

... Daryl wouldn't be happy with Rick for jumping to conclusions with Carol....

Interesting theory! It's plausible, in my opinion. And yet, Rick was not "jumping to conclusions", since Carol blatantly admitted killing K&D.

I don't think Daryl is blinded by love or infatuation with Carol. I mean, really, how close are they? He likes having her around, and they're apparently quite close, but if she killed someone, I don't think he's going to go crazy with grief over her banishment. He's pragmatic about life in the post-apocalyptic world, and I don't think he'd condone the murders just to have Carol back.

We will see, though.

No Rick wasn't but we've seen Daryl blow up before, that might be the way he sees it before he calms down and gets all the facts, that's all I meant by that.

 

[PKerr]

I've heard the "Lizzie did it" theory before, and though it's not out of the realm of possibility, why wouldn't Carol tell someone about it? We can be pretty sure they won't kill or banish a disturbed little girl. Why lie? Especially to Rick, who's supposed to be a trusted person to Carol, and also a parent to a boy who's had similar difficulties. What good comes from lying to Rick?

If she can't be honest with Rick after all this time, maybe it's still best that they aren't in a group together

She may feel some responsibility for Lizzy's actions (If she did it) for a few reasons so she just took the blame.

1. She has been teaching the kids how to kill with knives in secret for some time now.

2. Her comment to Lizzy about being weak.

3. She is gaining feelings for the girls and can't bare losing one of "her children" again, she wants to be a "better" protective mother (in her mind) to her new kids than she was with Sophia .

 

[Sindatur]

... Daryl wouldn't be happy with Rick for jumping to conclusions with Carol....

Interesting theory! It's plausible, in my opinion. And yet, Rick was not "jumping to conclusions", since Carol blatantly admitted killing K&D.

I don't think Daryl is blinded by love or infatuation with Carol. I mean, really, how close are they? He likes having her around, and they're apparently quite close, but if she killed someone, I don't think he's going to go crazy with grief over her banishment. He's pragmatic about life in the post-apocalyptic world, and I don't think he'd condone the murders just to have Carol back.

We will see, though.

Hmmmm....I wouldn't be so sure. Daryll and Carol have been pretty close (maybe he's over his infatuation, since they've been showing chemistry between him and Michonne, but, I think he's still "brotherly" with her at least). And let's consider all the things Merle did to him as a child, and all the awful things Merle has done, and he stuck up for Merle and left the Prison in order to stand at Merle's side. So, I wouldn't be so quick to assume Daryll will just take Carol's banishment in stride.

 

[Pavonis]

You're right. Daryl's a stick-with-family kinda guy. I could see him leaving to find Carol, either to stick with her, or bring her back. I just don't know how he'll take learning that she killed (or claimed to kill) Karen and David.

 

[Mojochi]

I've heard the "Lizzie did it" theory before, and though it's not out of the realm of possibility, why wouldn't Carol tell someone about it? We can be pretty sure they won't kill or banish a disturbed little girl. Why lie? Especially to Rick, who's supposed to be a trusted person to Carol, and also a parent to a boy who's had similar difficulties. What good comes from lying to Rick?

If she can't be honest with Rick after all this time, maybe it's still best that they aren't in a group together

She may feel some responsibility for Lizzy's actions (If she did it) for a few reasons so she just took the blame.

Then the better thing to have done, if that were the case, would be to take the blame for guiding her poorly, not confess to murder, which could only end badly, & not so much if people knew the girl had done it

Ultimately though, Carol didn't just confess to the murders. She confessed to believing that murdering them was right. There's no way anyone can convince me that she doesn't believe what she's saying & acting like she believes. That whole episode of her behaving how she did can't all be a façade, & that means it's most likely that she did it, because she said she did

Thinking it's all a façade smacks of people not wanting to face her becoming the kind of person she's clearly become, hoping for some possible out that explains it without it ending up so ugly. I don't buy it, because it's in her eyes & her voice. She truly believes killing those two was right & necessary, & if you look though this thread, she's not alone in that thinking, though I disagree with it

About Daryl, if you think about it, Merle was far worse for the group than Carol's one terrible act made her, & I'd say he does think of her as family just as much as he did his brother, & he pushed to keep Merle around all along. So it's possible he chooses to want her back, but it's also possible he could see reason. A good question is, if he does want her back, will they all cave the same way they did when he insisted on Merle being let in?

They really do need Daryl. He has a LOT of say

 

[Triskelion]

Here's the thing: there is absolutely nothing to keep Carol from driving right back to the prison and raising a crapstorm.

That she hasn't done so indicates that on some level she's fine with exile, and understands it. Maybe even factored it into her decision to kill the ill.

She's a big girl. So no, I don't put Rick exiling her on par with her killing the ill, nor Rick's killing Shane (twice). Shane drew on Rick to kill him in cold blood. Shane even put his gun down and invited Rick to shoot him in cold blood. Then when Rick refused, he drew on Rick again. Rick lured him into range then knifed him, shouting "This was you did this to us! Not me! Not me!"

Whether you agree with his trickery or not - Shane drew on Rick to kill him - twice. You don't draw on something unless you intend to destroy it. He made his move and he paid his price. Self-defense. Next case.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

maybe he's over his infatuation, since they've been showing chemistry between him and Michonne, but, I think he's still "brotherly" with her at least).

Daryl and Michonne? When did this chemistry take place? He's spoken to her in a grand total of what? One episode? When did the chemistry happen? I must have missed it. If the show abandons the Daryl/Carol bond, whatever it may be to force a Daryl/Michonne hookup/romance, that'll be beyond lame. The actors don't even play well off one another. Whose idea was this? No lame romances. PLEASE.

 

[wissaboo]

maybe he's over his infatuation, since they've been showing chemistry between him and Michonne, but, I think he's still "brotherly" with her at least).

Daryl and Michonne? When did this chemistry take place? He's spoken to her in a grand total of what? An episode and a half? When did the chemistry happen? I must have missed it. That doesn't exactly make a romance. If the show abandons the Daryl/Carol bond, whatever it may be, to force a Daryl/Michonne hookup/romance, that'll be beyond lame. The actors don't even play well off one another. Whose idea was this?

There has been some moments where they showed a connection in the last couple episodes. I agree, they shouldn't be "together" but just being able to talk to people like he has been lately shows how far Daryl's character has come since the first season.