Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Dream, May 6, 2013.
Have you read World War Z?
I haven't yet read the book but I saw the movie. Fast moving Zombies make it more probable that the armed forces can be overrun. And as I understand it in the book - a lot of the military survives on ships at sea. In fact the Oval office is moved to Hawaii as the island [Oahu] is secured.
Yes, I feel there should be lots of bases out there still intact. Still, we've only seen Georgia up to this point, so who knows what's still out there.
The movie only shares the title with the book. Nothing else carries over.
The assumption the show makes is that no matter how hardcore your defense is or how badass your weapons are, it only takes the guy standing next to you to turn into a zombie to fuck everything up. Then it just escalates from there. Even if you take that zombie out before he kills/converts a couple more, that's still less people than you started with.
Also, have you actually seen the military in action before? It's nothing like the movies. It's full of incompetent boobs at every level (remember, by definition of the term, half the population is of below average intelligence), and on top of that, most military installations are wiiiiiide open and next to impossible to keep secure. Fort Benning, for example, which is the one they were heading to in the first season of the show, doesn't have so much as a picket fence around it.
As is said above, the book zombies are not the fast-movers that the movie zombies are.
The book introduces a scale that's rarely seen in TWD. There's a big battle where the military fights a zombie 'herd' that numbers in the thousands upon thousands.
There's too much of a reliance on NextGen technology and from a tactical standpoint they act like they're fighting another army - without spoiling it too much it doesn't work out well.
Yeah, but until the invention season four's prison virus (now a distant memory), we did not see random people just dropping/turning and even that was contained). That said, it should not be hard for a well-armed military force (quickly knowing not to waste bullets on body shots to walkers) to contain large areas.
The way TV-WD would have you assume, the walkers were some superhuman fighting force that defeated the military in a week's time, considering how there's no sign of it. Honestly, aside from the tank left in the city in season one, the National Guard unit (the Governor's victims - season 2), a couple of the Governor's new group in season four, and now Abraham, the military seemed to be wiped off the face of the earth.
Yes, I have seen them, and know many serving, or served in the past, so I find your view more than skewed.
Still, for the series to expect viewers to believe the entire military forces of the U.S. just fell (like it expects satellites to seemingly stop working/vanish in short time), is lazy, convenient writing to avoid thinking out a sensible set of problems and ways to deal with said problems.
My assumption has always been that due to the limited scope of area covered by the group we're watching that there were major battles going on offscreen. Still, a totally deserted Atlanta is hard to explain.
When were satellites ever mentioned on the show?
We've had this discussion about the fall of the military before and there is no way on God's green Earth to believe that the combined force of the Military, National Guard, The Reserves, The Police, the Fire Departments (FF bunker gear would be perfect in a ZA, as nothing would bite through it), every good ole boy with a shotgun and every punk kid that played Call of Duty would be overrun by these slow moving, dumb (even the ones from season one) Walkers.
The FBI estimates there are enough guns owned by private citizens, police and military that there would be enough for every person in the U.S. to have at least one.
If a lawyer (Michonne's occupation in the comics) with a katana can take out 100's and 100's of walkers, I'm sure trained Military personal could take out 1000's each.
We also have to remember, anyone trained with a firearm aims for the head or center mass, if you put 3-4 rounds center mass and the "person" didn't drop you would automatically aim for the head, also numerous rounds center mass would eventually destroy the spine making "whatever" immobile, I don't care what TPTB want us to believe about reanimation, a part isn't going to work if it isn't there.
Stg. Abraham Ford said he was speaking on a a satellite phone with Washington to get the Dr. there because he had the, "cure."
Which begs the question actually if people in D.C. are still uplinked to a satellite phone why the fuck wouldn't they have sent what remaining air force they had to extract him for such an important task?
Returning to my comments about military - lack there of. Yes it is lazy writing not to at least comment on a military force unseen which is understandable that was way above the production costs budgeted for the series.
It goes without saying that there are many, many plot holes related to the fall of civilization over the course of a couple of weeks or less. However, they could have cleaned it up by at least alluding to a larger military force somewhere which would haven't have cost the series a $1 to make it more believable. e.g. some sort of massive fallback and re-group strategy.
Actually it was Eugene who said (to Abraham at some point in the past) that the Sat-Phone communicated with Washington and had recently gone dead. All I'll say is.... Let that story flesh out.
In Season 3 when we first meet Woodbury/The Governor we meet a military group. So it's possible there's still more out there and they're trying it's just that they're overwhelmed and there's only "so much" they can do. Heck we see that they napalmed Atlanta and look how that turned out!
For the premise and the show to work you have to accept that humanity was just overwhelmed in a very short time (possibly only a couple weeks) and that's just when things "got bad."
Yeah, but Trek God 1 intimated that for some reason satellites had just disappeared?
Not sure what would lead one to think that.
Also, up until now, we haven't had a military character on the show really front and center. Abraham may be around long enough for us to get some exposition on how things went militarioy during the fall.
"Normal" wars, soldiers are sent form home(which is "safe") and sent to the war zone.
My theory on this is that the Zombie Apocalypse is instantaneous and worldwide. Anyone in the military is going to be worried about their family, and wiling to go AWOL when they can't communicate with their family.
Also, not knowing the zombie bite problem, "heroes" are going to go hand-to-hand, get bitten, and brush it off -- until they die and turn.
Another thing is that when things start going a little more out of control, they will order outrageous things, like the killing in Rick's hospital. That'll turn military people against each other, and they will shoot each other most likely in the just creating more zombies. And friends of the mortally wounded will either try to comfort their friend or bury them or something, and get bit themselves. Also civilians will also get revenge as well.
All of that can decimate the military. ANd the others might retreat to safe zones, and not reach out to the public (especially if scout teams get ambushed like with the Governor).
You are misunderstanding. TWD's utter lack of all forms of satellite-based communication implies the tools required for service are dead, which would also extend to emergency networks. How did that happen in the short time between Rick's gunshot wound? Even Jenner (CDC) is not communicating with anyone, and we cannot assume all organizations and emergency networks were abandoned, so...?
Of course, silencing the world in such a short time lends itself to a bleak situation....no matter how unbelievable that is.
Exactly. Where did such a large population go? They did not all "head for the hills," or cross over every available border (since they would know people in other neighboring states would attempt the same thing, creating a near-inescapable gridlock).
Well, that begs the question: what is the effect of napalm on walkers?
...and that is why some of the audience find it easy to spot problems. At least with the original Night of the Living Dead, the spread of the zombie outbreak was not said to be "everywhere." Reports were vague, and we witnessed the local law enforcement response, but it was not the end of everything.
In TWD, the ZA just drops on society like a ton of bricks, with no realistic idea of how society would respond. It is just ZA happens, mankind falls overnight--strongly implied by the sweep of society in the short time between Rick going into, then leaving the hospital.
You have a bad habit of assuming that since it hasn't been directly addressed in the show, that something doesn't work at all.
What access to satellite communications has our little group had? Portable satellite phones aren't exactly common. Even if you had one, who do you call? What phone number do you try? And that's assuming that the other infrastructure between the satellite and the receiving phone is still functional/being manned.
Do you think they should be sitting around watching satellite TV? (as if it would work)
Satellites are great for point to point communication, but in a situation where you don't know who to call? almost useless.
They would be better off scavenging for HAM radio equipment.
Dude, learn to multi-quote.
Anyway, there's probably a few ways the population got so decimated so quickly. It probably took a while for people to learn that a bite or scratch from a zombie infects you, causes you to die and reanimate. That happening a couple of times could have taken out a few people before people realized what was going on. And it probably took even more time for people to learn that dying no matter what causes you to reanimate. Something our characters weren't even aware of throughout the whole first two seasons! (Accept for Rick during S2.)
But the "infection spread by bite" is, in fact a very hard way to spread a disease. Sort of how a dog getting rabies doesn't mean 99% of the dogs in the world will have rabies in the next couple days.
And the show-runners have pretty much been on record that we'll never know how the ZA happened. So, again, it's really just something we have to accept as a "somehow." Or there's much more going on elsewhere in the world that we're not yet privy to.
Also satellites depend on ground systems to work. If the power grid is gone then there's no computers or anything on the ground to help satellites work. Hell, I'm fairly sure the satellites require constant "maintenance" from NASA and other agencies on the ground to keep them aligned and operating. They may be largely useless after the 18-months/2-years that have passed.
There's also the possibility that the base virus was also lethal to the vast majority of the population as soon as it went airborn (or however it managed to infect the entire population), and those that survived the original outbreak had an immunity to that particular aspect of it and only turn if they're bitten or otherwise infected with the more active/triggering strain.
Honestly, that seems the most likely reason for how it could have happened.
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