The TOS aesthetic…

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by Warped9, Mar 7, 2022.

  1. Dar70

    Dar70 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2001
    Location:
    Dar70
    I have come to appreciate TMP over the years. I like it much more than when I was a kid. I think it's closerst to TOS than the next 5 films. With probably Star Trek 2, 3 and 6 a close second than and 4 and 5 seem the biggest departures. I think 4 has aged really bad in regards to story and 5 tries to be comedic like 4 but went way too far and It is pretty much unwatchable to me.
     
    Qonundrum likes this.
  2. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2007
    Location:
    Maryland, USA
    Here’s how I treat the films:

    TMP is its own thing.

    TWOK, TSFS, and TVH are a trilogy that works well together, and should have been the only TOS films made.

    TFF is a complete clusterfuck.

    TUC was the movie they made to redeem the clusterfuck that was TFF.
     
  3. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    USS TITAN-A
    I can see this. TMP is the one film that just doesn't connect with TOS or the other films in any meaningful way. The themes are very Trek but the execution is completely different and treating it as it's own thing, similarly with TOS, is how I can reconcile the differences.
     
    Qonundrum likes this.
  4. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Location:
    Brockville, Ontario, Canada
    One of the faults of TMPi (in some viewers’ eyes) is that everyone wanted it to pick up where TOS left off whereas Roddenberry wanted to address the passage of time and how the characters had been affected. A lot of fans can’t accept this.

    It isn’t helped by the film not directly addressing why Kirk, Spock, and McCoy were no longer where we last saw them. The novelization addresses it, but not the film, and a lot of folks don’t like that either.
     
    Qonundrum likes this.
  5. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    USS TITAN-A
    A little comment as to why would have gone a long way. I'm all for the passage of time and do not want static characters. However, I do want to like the characters as they are presented. And, I don't. Most of TMP is filled with standoffish characters who don't feel very likeable.

    I don't want it to pick up where TOS left off, but at least tell me why we're at where we are at.

    A lot of the film feels very much tonally opposite to TOS, more cold, more mechanical and a different energy. It isn't a bad thing, but it isn't for me, and isn't my preferred aesthetic to Trek. Save for the new Enterprise. It was decent.
     
    JonnyQuest037 and Qonundrum like this.
  6. Qonundrum

    Qonundrum Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    2-6 do take on their own new feel (esp 2-4, 6), but 1 and 5 are the outliers, while keeping the characters feeling true to their original selves - which is easier for some than for others since some never got much development in TOS. :(

    1 is almost as emotionless as Spock, if not for the sense of threat VGER is supposed to bring - yet somehow doesn't. Would I want 2-6 to be as unevenly paced as 1 was? Nope. 1 was in the right place and at the right time and with the right amount of visual f/x to keep fans drooling for more. If it came back as a TV show, or as a movie delayed for a handful of years, I don't think it would have made it this far.

    5 feels the most like TOS, save for the comedy being thrust in thanks to Paramount wanting more of it thanks to its use making ST4 so popular at the time. Which is understandable, but 4 had "fish out of water" to keep the jokes grounded. ST5 lacks that and couldn't have it because they're not going back, thankfully... though of they did, a crossover where Kirk meets Harold T Stone and where Spock and Roz discuss the illogic of humans would have been worth it...

    4 has definitely aged the worst. It's the only Trek movie I've watched out of actual nostalgia, as the actual story is bare-bones thin and the humor, outside of the enveloped vacuum of 1986, doesn't hold up. I'll even admit I forgot what a "beeper" was, and I had worn one for years...
     
    Neopeius likes this.
  7. dupersuper

    dupersuper Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2020
    Really? A comedic time travel story with a moral and humans and friends opposing a godlike being and working together with Klingons and Romulans (with yet another Spock relative revealed). They feel very Trek to me.[/QUOTE]
     
  8. JonnyQuest037

    JonnyQuest037 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Location:
    Parsippany, New Jersey, USA
    I'm fine with the characters being a bit different. I'm not fine with them being unappealing jerks.
    Nor should they. Really, would it have been that tough to add in some dialogue filling in background details like McCoy resigning from Starfleet in protest of Kirk being promoted? That would've added some much needed character drama.

    And if you have to go to an outside source to make sense of a film, the film is a failure.
    Exactly. TWOK fills in those gaps where TMP doesn't. We know after the opening scenes exactly where Kirk is at emotionally and why he feels unfulfilled.
     
    PCz911, ZapBrannigan and fireproof78 like this.
  9. Lt.Tyler

    Lt.Tyler Ensign Newbie

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2022
    Well if Star Trek:TOS takes place in the late 22nd century like so many episodes reveal, such as Where No Man Has Gone Before, Tomorrow Is Yesterday, Space Seed, The Savage Curtain and we know that Star Trek:The Motion Picture takes place in the 23rd century then yes absolutely TMP is it’s own thing taking place in is own separate timeline/reality.
     
  10. PCz911

    PCz911 Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2014
    agreed.

    TMP should have been more like a reforming the band kind of feel, like magnificent seven… where we find all our crew scattered and Kirk collects them. I remember leaving the theatre asking wtf did I just see?
     
    Richard S. Ta likes this.
  11. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Garth of Algar Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2001
    Location:
    Algar
    How many outright say "22nd Century"?
     
  12. Lt.Tyler

    Lt.Tyler Ensign Newbie

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2022
    Go watch them for yourself. Do the math. It’s not that hard.
     
  13. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Garth of Algar Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2001
    Location:
    Algar
    Watched them many times. And recall very few references to the 22nd Century. TOS went out of it way to avoid nailing down the exact date and even gave conflicting information. Since it's your assertion. the burden of proof falls to you.
     
  14. Lt.Tyler

    Lt.Tyler Ensign Newbie

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2022
    What the episodes that I just listed and if you can do simple math then you’ll have your answer. 22nd century.
     
  15. JonnyQuest037

    JonnyQuest037 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Location:
    Parsippany, New Jersey, USA
    I don't think any episodes say that they take place in the 22nd Century, but "Space Seed" and "Tomorrow is Yesterday" both say it's been 200 years since the 20th Century.
     
  16. Lt.Tyler

    Lt.Tyler Ensign Newbie

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2022
     
  17. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2007
    Location:
    Maryland, USA
    And how many episodes contradicted that assertion?
     
    Ronald Held likes this.
  18. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Garth of Algar Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2001
    Location:
    Algar
    I did the math. Seems like too small a number to be "many".
    So we have two references to TOS taking place 200 years since.
    Space Seed for sure.
    Though the one in "Tomorrow Is Yesterday" is said in jest, so it is a bit specious.
    Nothing in WNMHGB that I can findreferencing the 22nd Century, just a reference to the Valiant being lost 200 years ago. Pretty sure we weren't launching manned interstellar craft in the 20th Century.
    on to The Savage Curtain. And I've drawn a blank. A reference to 21st Century, but nothing on the 22nd.
     
    Donald G likes this.
  19. Lt.Tyler

    Lt.Tyler Ensign Newbie

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2022
    You need to rewatch all of those episodes again.
     
  20. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Garth of Algar Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2001
    Location:
    Algar
    Why? Nothing has come up in the transcripts I quoted. Are you saying the transcripts are wrong?
    Check for yourself
    TOS Transcripts
     
    Richard S. Ta likes this.