The Top Major Screw ups & Mistakes Of The Dominon War?

[Nightdiamond]

The biggest mistake of all is that the federation should have had half of the fleet standing by at the wormhole and just blasted everything coming thru. Or they should have mounted a bunch of Quantum torpedo "gattling guns" just sitting there waiting. They had plenty of warning. It's called a bottleneck. Just ask those 300 Spartans!

I think it's official that waiting too long is Federation's 3rd major FUBAR of the war. It almost seemed as if Starfleet was too scared to do anything!

3. The Federation and Starfleet failed to act in time.

During the phase of the cold war with the Dominion, starfleet did take appropriate action by bolstering up DS9 and turning it into something of an armed fortress.

The Defiant was also permanently stationed there for the sole purpose of protecting DS9 and Bajor. However, when Cardassian joined the Dominion, and the Dominion began sending fleet after fleet into the Alpha Quadant, Starfleet just sat and watched.

Even when reports of ships being attacked by Jem Hadar or going missing, Starfleet still did very little other than just watch.

The Jem Hadar are coming through your side of the wormhole and through YOUR territory, and yet the only response is just to note it.

Sure, it is said Starfleet never fires the first shot, and will not start a war. The arguement could be 'hey, our hands were tied politically and ethically until the Dominion fired the first shot'...

But it seems to fall apart just on the violation of territory thing, let alone the ships being attacked.

Starfleet waited and watched while the Dominion built up a huge fleet, mostly because they were able to set up shipyards by the time the war broke out- major mistake.


It would have been interesting to see that idea- ships positioned at the mouth of the wormhole firing at the jem hadar as soon as they appeared, but what are downsides to this idea?

 

[Strider]

The biggest mistake of all is that the federation should have had half of the fleet standing by at the wormhole and just blasted everything coming thru. Or they should have mounted a bunch of Quantum torpedo "gattling guns" just sitting there waiting. They had plenty of warning. It's called a bottleneck. Just ask those 300 Spartans!

I have always wanted to see that on screen. I can just picture the wormhole opening and dozens of weapons platforms and starships pumping torpedoes and phasers into the opening without even bothering to acquire targets. All the while the Jem Hadar are dodging and trying to cover each other with their shields and firing blindly and striking an occasional hit against the Feds and the whole thing is just absolute chaos. And then when the Jems stop coming you let your cloaked ships and probes recon the other side and then send through a fleet of Klingons.

 

[data65]

Another thing is..surely by the 24th century the Tholians are our allies. Just build a big honkin' web at the wormhole exit....then open up on the Dominion fleet with DS9, Weapons platforms...ect. War over, go have some bloodwine!

 

[Marie1]

I think the Tholians signed the non-agression pact with the Dominion didn't they?

They seem like jerks... its hard to work with jerks...

 

[Myasishchev]

The Jem Hadar are coming through your side of the wormhole and through YOUR territory, and yet the only response is just to note it.

Technically, they're going through Bajoran space. If Bajor didn't want to force the issue, that's Bajor's business.

Plus, it's an open question whether what kind of, if any, rights of navigation exist in the Alpha Quadrant. The Dominion, after the Cardassian cession, was a non-contiguous state, seeking (nominally) only to move materiel into their new, legally obtained territory.

Imagine if the Turks blocked the Black Sea to Russian traffic, or the Egyptians blocked the Suez to Western Europe's--they own the straits and canal, respectively, but their blockade is an act of violence and ultimately may be characterized very persuasively as an act of war.

Why, Weyoun even said he would limit the convoys to non-military vessels once the complaint was registered.

 

[Marie1]

Well, they did do the whole infiltration thing including of SF, and they almost destroyed Bajor with that bomb... the Bajorans signed the NA pact because the Emissary told them to, they wouldn't have otherwise.

 

[Nightdiamond]

The Jem Hadar are coming through your side of the wormhole and through YOUR territory, and yet the only response is just to note it.

Technically, they're going through Bajoran space. If Bajor didn't want to force the issue, that's Bajor's business.

Plus, it's an open question whether what kind of, if any, rights of navigation exist in the Alpha Quadrant. The Dominion, after the Cardassian cession, was a non-contiguous state, seeking (nominally) only to move materiel into their new, legally obtained territory.

Imagine if the Turks blocked the Black Sea to Russian traffic, or the Egyptians blocked the Suez to Western Europe's--they own the straits and canal, respectively, but their blockade is an act of violence and ultimately may be characterized very persuasively as an act of war.

Why, Weyoun even said he would limit the convoys to non-military vessels once the complaint was registered.

Marie1

Well, they did do the whole infiltration thing including of SF, and they almost destroyed Bajor with that bomb... the Bajorans signed the NA pact because the Emissary told them to, they wouldn't have otherwise.

That's just it. As soon as they came through, the first thing they did was try to destroy the Bajoran sun, which would had destroyed not only the station and the fleet assembled there, but Bajor as well!

So technically, trying that was an act of war towards both the Federation and the Bajorans. It seems strange to acknowledge that the Dominion tried to wipe out your entire planet as soon as they entered through YOUR territory, and then later, just allow them to run through it sending more and more ships which will eventually be used against you anyway.

I think at that point, the Federation didn't recognize the Dominion government, and the Bajorans had plenty of reasons not to, one being that their colonies were wiped out by the Dominion a few years earlier.

Could the outward appearence be that starfleet was a little too nervous to do anything at the time?

 

[Marie1]

Maybe its because they knew there would be huge casualties (SF I mean) and that unlike Jem'Hadar that are replaced fast, AQ lives usually aren't. The Dominion views its soldiers as expendable, its hard to fight that in a hot war.

And Bajor... I never had the impression Bajor was all that strong, I mean, only a few years since the Occupation, they barely had any ships, and SF couldn't/wouldn't spare ships to help... so they were maybe trying to stay out of trouble?

 

[Nightdiamond]

Maybe its because they knew there would be huge casualties (SF I mean) and that unlike Jem'Hadar that are replaced fast, AQ lives usually aren't. The Dominion views its soldiers as expendable, its hard to fight that in a hot war.

And Bajor... I never had the impression Bajor was all that strong, I mean, only a few years since the Occupation, they barely had any ships, and SF couldn't/wouldn't spare ships to help... so they were maybe trying to stay out of trouble?

That makes a lot of sense, but the sense the episodes gave were that Bajor was ready to fight the Dominion at anytime. For example, Kira though she was on the Defiant, was about to fire on Dukat's ship when she learned he had joined the Dominion.

And Kira had said that the Bajoran ministers would never pass a motion to sign a treaty with the Dominion until Sisko urged them as the Emissary.

The major support for your suggestion Marie1, is what Kai Winn said earlier about Bajor ability to fight the Dominion....

 

[Jono]

Maybe its because they knew there would be huge casualties (SF I mean) and that unlike Jem'Hadar that are replaced fast, AQ lives usually aren't. The Dominion views its soldiers as expendable, its hard to fight that in a hot war.

And Bajor... I never had the impression Bajor was all that strong, I mean, only a few years since the Occupation, they barely had any ships, and SF couldn't/wouldn't spare ships to help... so they were maybe trying to stay out of trouble?

That makes a lot of sense, but the sense the episodes gave were that Bajor was ready to fight the Dominion at anytime. For example, Kira though she was on the Defiant, was about to fire on Dukat's ship when she learned he had joined the Dominion.

And Kira had said that the Bajoran ministers would never pass a motion to sign a treaty with the Dominion until Sisko urged them as the Emissary.

The major support for your suggestion Marie1, is what Kai Winn said earlier about Bajor ability to fight the Dominion....

Shadows and Symbols clearly shows that Bajor's space forces are pathetic. The best they could do in a blockade of one of their own moons was a half dozen weak ships that wouldn't be able to stop one Romulan Warbird. Bajor would never be able to mount any type of defence against a small attack force let alone a major invasion of their world. They would be conquered and then it would be back to guerrilla warfare.

 

[Nightdiamond]

That's where Starfleet has to come in.... both were attacked by the Dominion one way or the other, before the actual war started.

Wiping out the bajoran colonies, attempting to destroy the entire Bajoran system, attacking federation vessels near the border after cardassian joined the Dominion... various threats, infiltration-the Dominion was asking for it..

One thing to note was that in some strange ways, the federation gave more industrial support to Cardassia than one of its closest allies, the Bajorans. Remember the industrial replicators they sent to Cardassia?

Kira noted that Bajor only got 2 of them, but they gave Cardassia 12.
If the federation could have done that for Bajor then they could have turned their attention to building up a strong defense fleet.

KIRA:The Federation's only given Bajor two CFI replicators.

EDDINGTON: With all due respect, Bajor is just one planet. The Klingons have destroyed the industrial base of literally dozens of Cardassian worlds. With twelve CFI replicators, they can at least start building new power plants and factories.

That's Federation logic... it backfired on them.......

This just returns to same issue I think lots of fans think of; the federation was just a little too nice! They paid much more attention to exploration and scientific study (and a little hedonism) during those times than they did to practical military matters.

Would any other Alpha Quadrant power have sat back and waited like that? Even the Crdsassians had enough when the Founder gave away their territory to the Breen and sacrificed an entire order.

I mean, Bajor is sitting at the mouth of the wormhole during the Dominion threat, and no thoughts about boosting Bajor's fleet? Maybe some weapons platforms? They had enough time damnit, lol...

Take care everyone...

 

[Marie1]

For some reason... they decided Earth would be a target... but if the fleet moved towards Earth, wouldn't the fleet from DS9 be able to intercept? And no one attacked earth til the Breen did...
All this obsession with earth... for crying out loud.

 

[Nightdiamond]

For some reason... they decided Earth would be a target... but if the fleet moved towards Earth, wouldn't the fleet from DS9 be able to intercept? And no one attacked earth til the Breen did...
All this obsession with earth... for crying out loud.

Yes, and the Breen lost/wasted an entire fleet doing that too. Strange, Starfleet was able to destroy the Breen fleet, but they had the energy draining weapon then... maybe Earth's planetary defenses took them out, or Starfleet simply overwhelmed them with their fleet...

And all that just for a message attack..

 

[Myasishchev]

^I hadn't thought of that!

Maybe it turns out 2000 ships were lost against the Breen at the Second Battle of Sector One.

 

[Photon]

1 Heavy Jem BattleShip and 4 Battle cruiser could have decimated and entire wing of SF ships.

If Ent E and Prometheus=Battle cruiser and nothing equaled the BattleShip-turn them loose in the middle of Federation and tear it up.

The only thing we've seen on camera that's comparable to the Jem BattleShip was the Scimmitar,

 

[Nightdiamond]

1 Heavy Jem BattleShip and 4 Battle cruiser could have decimated and entire wing of SF ships.

If Ent E and Prometheus=Battle cruiser and nothing equaled the BattleShip-turn them loose in the middle of Federation and tear it up.

The only thing we've seen on camera that's comparable to the Jem BattleShip was the Scimmitar,

Lol, gotta take a go at this one again but, what HAPPENED to those battleships? I thought once they came out, we would hear about them again and again about what a threat they were.

It look like a "sink the bismark" situation with starfleet trying desperatly to destroy them before they broke through every line.

Instead, nothing after we saw the first one, except for a few scenes in the last two episodes. It seems like they didn't have that much affect. Apparently they were dealt with to the point that their presence didn't seem to make a difference after all.

With the Dominion retreat after the Federation found a counter-measure to the Breen weapon, the message was that the Federation Alliance was gaining ground whether the battleships were there or not...

 

[Myasishchev]

If they were really like the Bismarck class, it's perfectly correct that they did absolutely nothing worthwile. The Tirpitz literally had no effect beyond the spectre of its existence.

I thought we did see some Dominion BBs at Cardassia Prime, though.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

I think one big Federation mistake was to not back the Detapa Council WHOLEHEARTEDLY. If, once the Klingons abrogated the Khitomer Accords, the Federation had decided to bear down on the Klingons with their full might until they had no choice but to let go of Cardassia (I mean, if I remember right, the Klingons kept going even after the Changeling Martok was exposed!)...you might've had a different situation. Dukat might never have run to the Dominion, and instead, when the Dominion DID come through the wormhole, they'd be facing a very different situation.

 

[Nightdiamond]

I think one big Federation mistake was to not back the Detapa Council WHOLEHEARTEDLY.

If, once the Klingons abrogated the Khitomer Accords, the Federation had decided to bear down on the Klingons with their full might until they had no choice but to let go of Cardassia (I mean, if I remember right, the Klingons kept going even after the Changeling Martok was exposed!)...

you might've had a different situation. Dukat might never have run to the Dominion, and instead, when the Dominion DID come through the wormhole, they'd be facing a very different situation

I think everyone, as far as some of the fans were concerned, had a 'who cares' as far as the Cardassians, because their hands were not clean for quite a while, all those past incidents with the Federation AFTER the treaty was signed....

keep writing the fandom, I like them!

If they were really like the Bismarck class, it's perfectly correct that they did absolutely nothing worthwile. The Tirpitz literally had no effect beyond the spectre of its existence.

I thought we did see some Dominion BBs at Cardassia Prime, though.

HI Myasishchev and everyone else..

They were there and they looked really intimidating. It just seems so strange that with these ships the Dominion STILL had a problem advancing in the war, and they even made a decision to fall back.

Remember, at least one of these ships were operational before the war broke out. By the time the war was brought to Cardassia, we see several of them. They looked like such a big advantage to me.

On the other hand, maybe ships like the Defiant took them on successfully. The Defiant was designed to fight the Borg, which was nearly unbeatable with conventional starships.

So maybe Myasishchev's view is right...

(scenerio) 'The large lumbering Dominion Battleship was at the center of the jem hadar attack fleet, meant to serve as a heavy blockade destroyer, but with so many flaws and slower speed and reaction time, it was frequently subjected to surprise attacks time and time again by federation, Klingons and Romulan vessels.

' The ships required three times as much attention at the repair shipyards, and with the large amount of ordinance it carried, risk large scale explosions with the slightest instabilities....."

They were duds ultimately. Perhaps too many technical problems to make them effectively...



I would like to post one of the things the Federation did right - their intelligence gathering

1. Starfleet's Expert intelligence gathering.

During the war and even before it, Starfleet intelligence made discoveries that caused major losses for the Dominion.

One of them was the location of a secret Ketracel White station deep inside cardassian space. Ketracel White isn't replicated but produced and stored. The ability to distinguish it from just any other repair station made this discovery all the more impressive.

After passing this information to Starfleet Command, they were able to destroy the facility which caused a near crisis for the Dominion.

Another major discovery was a secret array erected by the Domion near a nebula . This array gave the Domion another advantage by allowing them to track Starfleet fleet movements and give them the opportunatey to ambush them again and again.

By successfuly detecting and destroying this array, it took away a major advantage the Domion had used since the beginning of the war...

Way to go, Starfleet!

 

[Photon]

1 Heavy Jem BattleShip and 4 Battle cruiser could have decimated and entire wing of SF ships.

If Ent E and Prometheus=Battle cruiser and nothing equaled the BattleShip-turn them loose in the middle of Federation and tear it up.

The only thing we've seen on camera that's comparable to the Jem BattleShip was the Scimmitar,

Lol, gotta take a go at this one again but, what HAPPENED to those battleships? I thought once they came out, we would hear about them again and again about what a threat they were.

It look like a "sink the bismark" situation with starfleet trying desperatly to destroy them before they broke through every line.

Instead, nothing after we saw the first one, except for a few scenes in the last two episodes. It seems like they didn't have that much affect. Apparently they were dealt with to the point that their presence didn't seem to make a difference after all.

With the Dominion retreat after the Federation found a counter-measure to the Breen weapon, the message was that the Federation Alliance was gaining ground whether the battleships were there or not...

IF you look at the defense of Carddy Prime, there were a few more B/S-I think (MemoryAlpha) some were larger and some scaled back. than the one that took down the Red Squad pricks.

Which bares the question, was a Dominion B/S the basis of the Reman Warbird? I believe yes.