Spoilers The Strange New Worlds Starship Thread™

[mswood]

If it's meant to be in canon, then they needed to keep it in canon with the established story and aesthetic. They tried to have it both ways and call it canon while changing things up on a whim. Which pleased no one.

Bullocks. Unless in your mind almost every single episode of Trek is within its own separate reality. Because they didn't follow their own established visual elements of on screen material from literally the get go. Now of course I can understand you personally wanting a show that is utterly visually and story wise 100% accurate in every single frame, line of dialogue or actor playing said character. But guess what the people who own the show get to say what is what.. That's just the nature of the business. We can complain about elements we don't like as individuals, but our viewpoints don't matter one iota.

This literally goes from very early TOS on through to the latest episodes of Trek and has happened in every interaction of show or film.

 

[Phoenix219]

Yeah we've seen no evidence that First Contact really changed anything and plenty of evidence (Deep Space Nine, Voyager, In a Mirror Darkly, These are the Voyages...) that the timeline is just as we saw it. We definitely got no evidence or even hints that First Contact caused the Temporal Cold War.

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I know these kind of videos are frowned upon around here, but honestly, this is a collection that makes my point perfectly, in terms of contradictory information, with TOS/TNG on one side of the coin, and ENT/Disco on the other. I am very convinced ENT is not the original timeline.

 

[fireproof78]

What is the video saying? I don't click random videos.

 

[Mudd]

There is no "timeline." There's a collection of hundreds of hours of stories that were made up as they went along and contradict each other.

 

[Phoenix219]

What is the video saying? I don't click random videos.

Its playing clips that make historical statements from TOS/TAS/TNG, then playing clips that state the exact opposite is true of ENT/DSC.

 

[Harpsichord]

I watched a minute of it and I see exactly where it's going. You could make a video like this to invalidate TNG+ just as easily. Who cares? This isn't nonfiction lmao

 

[fireproof78]

I watched a minute of it and I see exactly where it's going. You could make a video like this to invalidate TNG+ just as easily. Who cares? This isn't nonfiction lmao

Cherry picking quotes? Well, as some other show said context is for kings...or kids.

 

[Mudd]

You notice what the two that "contradict the timeline" actually have in common?

They're the newest.

What changes the timeline...is the passage of time.

The further from the point of origin, the more the stories diverge.

This will continue to be true.

 

[Harpsichord]

2268:

CHEKOV: Has there ever been a mutiny on a starship before?
SPOCK: Absolutely no record of such an occurrence, Ensign.

2267:

SPOCK: First Officer out. Doctor, as senior officer present, I present myself to you for arrest.
MCCOY: You what?
SPOCK: The charge is mutiny, Doctor. I never received orders to take command.

KIRK: This is mutiny, mister.
LESLIE: Yes, sir. It is.

My God... there are multiple timelines even within TOS!

 

[UssGlenn]

Spock specifically said there was no record of a mutiny. Starfleet likes to cover these things up, or retroactively reclassify them, so they can pretend there has never been a mutiny in Starfleet.

 

[fireproof78]

Yeah, that's a pretty consistent inconsistency. People are shocked by a mutiny.

 

[Phoenix219]

You notice what the two that "contradict the timeline" actually have in common?

They're the newest.

What changes the timeline...is the passage of time.

The further from the point of origin, the more the stories diverge.

This will continue to be true.

They are also the first two after the time travel movie that messed with the history of the entire franchise and took place before all of them. Both things can be equally true. It doesn't change that there is a mechanic built into the narrative that explains EVERYTHING that is different......

 

[fireproof78]

Time travel has always had variations. The rules vary depending on the story told. As SF Debris put it "this week's time travel rules are 'I don't give a shit.'"

 

[Tuskin38]

They are also the first two after the time travel movie that messed with the history of the entire franchise and took place before all of them. Both things can be equally true. It doesn't change that there is a mechanic built into the narrative that explains EVERYTHING that is different......

Except it goes against the intent of the writers (ENT is a prequel to TOS) and evidence from other shows that aired after the movie. Voyager references the events of First Contact happening in their timeline.

So unless you're going to say every episode of Trek that takes place after First Contact is also a separate timeline.

 

[Phoenix219]

Except it goes against the intent of the writers (ENT is a prequel to TOS) and evidence from other shows that aired after the movie. Voyager references the events of First Contact happening in their timeline.

So unless you're going to say every episode of Trek that takes place after First Contact is also a separate timeline.

Yeah, actually, I think that First Contact created Seven of Nine, and altered Voyager. Absolutely! Her parents wouldn't have even known about the Borg, since it all happened before the "Q" event. I think everything after FC is in an altered timeline.

 

[NCC-73515]

Its playing clips that make historical statements from TOS/TAS/TNG, then playing clips that state the exact opposite is true of ENT/DSC.

And, most importantly, it shows the various situations when future tech ended up in the past and could've caused all these leaps in technology

 

[F. King Daniel]

Looks like there's a gold "broke your little ships" model of the Strange New Worlds USS Enterprise somewhere in Picard season 2 or 3, as well as a TOS one. Link.

 

[Tomalak]

Yeah, actually, I think that First Contact created Seven of Nine, and altered Voyager. Absolutely! Her parents wouldn't have even known about the Borg, since it all happened before the "Q" event. I think everything after FC is in an altered timeline.

There's ways around it of course; the El-Aurians knew all about the Borg in the 23rd century and may well have talked about them, sparking academic interest.

But I've always been very comfortable with the idea that the timeline changes subtly due to the numerous incidents of time travel we see on the show. The First Contact one is quite a big inflection point - I think the novelverse used that concept.

It's established within canon that this can and does happen - Gabriel Bell, Sela etc. ENT and DSC introduce future Temporal Wars where the past becomes a battlefield.

Whatever, it all works for me. It's one continuity but might look a bit different depending when we're looking at it. I just assume that the overall story is the same even if some of the details are different.

There's going to be some verison of SNW where the ship looks like it does in The Cage and Pike looks like Jeff Hunter, and both Una and Chapel look like Majel Barrett. We're just seeing it through a different lens this time.

 

[dupersuper]

I made this call back in 2017 when discovery came out and with plenty of evidence, then they later admitted it anyway. Enterprise as an alternate universe as well.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

When they finally hire me for the job of Star Trek overlord I'm going to use the very finest deep fake technology to make an epic crossover episode which ends with the captains of every show standing on the original TOS bridge stating under oath that they all exist in the same universe and timeline. Including the animated ones.