You'd be hard pressed to find anyone outside of Trek fans who remember there was a Star Trek movie release a decade ago, much less details of it's plot.
The Romulus Question?
- Thread starter dahj
- Start date
Yeah, Romulus being destroyed has the potential for great stories (but also the danger of them falling completely flat), while Nemesis was just...meh.
But the main difference as a viewer is, Nemesis is something that definitely happened, and which you can keep up on by (re-)watching that movie (even if it isn't very fun). Wheras the destruction of Romulus in ST09 (while much more entertaining) is something that... theoretically happened? Kinda'? At a future time, in another universe? I mean, it is supposed to have happened in the prime universe. But it happened hidden under so much timey-wimey-ness, alternate realities and reboot shennanigans, that I'm sure even someone who has watched all of Star Trek can't be sure if it really happened or not.
You'd be hard pressed to find anyone outside of Trek fans who ever even knew what 'Romulus' was in trek terms to begin with. The average viewer might possibly vaguely recognize the name 'Romulan', but nothing more than that.
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Don't get personal.
Now if you'd said that @uniderth 's running gag is getting old, not only would that have been perfectly fine, but I might have Liked it.
Depends if you're asking people who saw the movie.
He also had a lighter complexion in 'Wrath of Khan'. They didn't use make up to darken Ricardo Montalbán's complexion like they did in 'Space Seed'.
A thought occurred to me -- with the Star Trek rights divided between CBS & Paramount, would a CBS TV series even be allowed to reference events and characters from the newer movies filmed since the corporate split? I believe I've heard that the break-up agreement allowed both entities to use everything established up to that time. If true, that doesn't necessarily guarantee that new creations are still shared by everybody. Certainly, Simon & Schuster had to get separate rights to use elements from the Kelvin Timeline in the novels, only recently procured, apparently. Comic book publishers over the years had to purchase discrete rights to the various TV series.
So maybe it's moot whether Orci wants to use the supernova from ST09 in the new Picard series. Maybe he and CBS would need to pay $$$ to Paramount & Bad Robot to license its use. Does anyone know what the agreement between CBS & Paramount actually allows?
So maybe it's moot whether Orci wants to use the supernova from ST09 in the new Picard series. Maybe he and CBS would need to pay $$$ to Paramount & Bad Robot to license its use. Does anyone know what the agreement between CBS & Paramount actually allows?
CBS owns all Star Trek. They can use anything they like from any TV series and any movie, Alex Kurtzman has even said so.
OK, good. Thanks for clearing that up. It certainly gives them lots of options, then.
I think the point some are making is: the fact that Nero and Spock Prime saw it happen from their point of view is all that gives it force within the story, and all that is required for that force to withstand a potential revelation that after they saw it happen and were spirited away, it just might have un-happened for whatever "timey wimey" reason, as suggested by the second option in the poll (which I didn't vote in, myself). Or, stated from another point of view, what they saw was only an illusion due to the vantage point from which they were observing the event.
Note that I'm not suggesting I believe such a prospective development will come to pass, nor that it necessarily should. But we can't in all honesty pretend that it couldn't, nor that it would somehow substantially affect the drama of ST'09 unto itself, if it did. Nero believes it happened. Spock Prime believes it happened. Ultimately, that's all that's important, there.
I hadn't ever considered such a possibility before reading this thread, but I find it an interesting one! Thanks for the food for thought, all!
-MMoM
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Is there a link for this, because the Disco S1 writers were quite sure they weren't allowed to touch anything from the movies.
Khan's entire motivation in TWOK was that he blamed Kirk for his wife's death. Sybok's entire motivation in TFF was that he believed he had received a message from God. Chang and T'Kuvma's entire motivation in TUC and DSC was that they thought war with the Federation was necessary to avoid the annihilation of Klingon culture. That doesn't mean any of them were actually correct in those beliefs...merely that they were convinced enough of them to act accordingly.It was only the villain's entire motivation for the movie.
No big deal at all
-MMoM
Also the average guy in the street probably doesn't know anything about Romulus and Remus in mythology either! So if they had of heard the names before and then were told it's significance by a Star Trek fan they might say something akin to hey, that's neat!
JB
It was only the villain's entire motivation for the movie.
No big deal at all
Considering they axed not just Nero's backstory, but Nero the character itself to the point he became ridicuous and made no sense whatsoever without being versed in the movies tie-in material and deleted scenes... yeah... It was not a big deal. Not al all.
Like, I like ST09 the most out of the Kelvin movies, and it's a fun movie that holds up because it mostly focuses on our new crew. But is has serious story and logic shortcomings. The villain plot is arguibly the weakest and most insanely thrown together I have ever seen in a movie of this scale. It's not that the audience didn't really care for this part. The creators didn't either.
So I really doubt Kurtzman is going to have any emotional connections to the plot point of Romulus being blown up that makes him keep the event wether it makes sense or not. The entire event smacks of a really hastily cobbled together solution to a script problem: what can make the badguy mad to the point of him wanting to destroy planets, without actually destroying planets, or have the main characters have done some serious mistakes that would take away from the adventure feel of the movie (unlike Kirk leaving Khan prior to TWOK).
I understood his motivation just fine from the movie. His pregnant wife died. His entire world was destroyed. He believed Spock and the Federation were responsible for Romulus not being saved and wanted to create a future free of the Federation so events would unfold differently and his wife might be saved.
How do so many people struggle with this?
The problem is the believing "Spock and the Federation at fault"-part. There is nothing in this movie to support that. Not even as a misguided believe. Nothing. On the contrary, Spock even tried to help. Which is more than any Romulan ever did.
I know this is apparently somewhat explained in non-canon tie-in material. But if you just watched to movie, it's a doofus guy whos wife got flattened by a Piano falling out of a window, and then goes on a genocidal rampage to kill all paramedics and their families in the world, because they weren't there fast enough to help. Commanding the biggest, baddest war machine that people ever built, because he just happened to have acces to it, being the redneck miner that he is.
It's not just ridiculously stupid. It's actually offensive towards Romulans to suggest that he has people following him and obeying his command on this special endeavour.
You really think that after 200 years of hostility it would never cross Nero's mind (even if he hadn't had a psychotic break) that maybe Spock intentionally stopped the supernova right *after* Romulus was obliterated?
Actually, no. Like, really not.
Just because you have a long standing animosity with someone, doesn't mean you can blame the other one for negative things that happened to you he has nothing to do with it. Especially not if they actually try to help.
In fact, Turkey and Greece have had a long standing animosity. Then Turkey was hit by a massive earthquake, and the Greek rushed to help them. A year later, coincidentally, the opposite happened. Since then, the tension between the two countries has sunk dramatically.
Turkey didn't blame Greece for the earthquake and went to total genocidal war with them. That would be stupid.
It would be like Greece had the technology to stop the earthquake and deployed it right after Turkey was razed.
Besides this is Star Trek. Romulans are quite well known for cartoonish over-the-top schemes so them suspecting the Federation of one makes sense.
It really makes no sense. The whole "flying around destroying planets" is so over the top and silly, and neither the motivation nor the means - weather the super-advanced "mining"-ship destroying entire fleets or the red matter that would be too goofy for a Marvel movie - makes any sense. Especially not for a Romulan. They tried to mash up Khan and the Doomsday device - but without really thinking about how they are different from each other.
The movie is entertaining despite that. Not because of it. When I say it's a "fun movie" with some "serious flaws" - those are the flaws. The journey of Kirk, Spock and Co. is all very well done, and the whole movie has a lot of energy and flow to it. But the villain plot of the movie is something really not worth mentioning.
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