Flying around destroying planets it's as pretty well established trope of Trek and sci-fi in general. What's Nero gonna do, rig elections and crash the economy?
The Romulus Question?
- Thread starter dahj
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How is "red matter" any more ridiculous that the Genesis device? The Genesis device IS rediculous, but it's the plot point of TWOK and for those of us who love that movie, and there are many of us, it is accepted. It's also understood why they seemingly have forgotten how to make them anymore because it's a one time plot gambit. Can't throw that card down again, really.
Again I don't have problems with a commercial ship nearly 100 years from the future being more advanced than those around it. Some freighters that have to pass through pirate infested waters now have 50 cals mounted on them. They're not in the slightest regard capable of going up against any modern warship. But if one went back in time and faced a blockade of three masted frigates, it could ram and tear through them like a bowling ball through a glassware shop. The only way to stop it would be to wait for it to run out of fuel or somehow get on board and take it over from the inside, which was what happened. I thought that part was as realistic as anything gets in Trek.
The idea that a mining ship that apparently works by coring out planets and asteroids would exist doesn't seem that far fetched in a universe with warp travel, transporters and magic gravity plates. Again, makes as much sense, really, especially if its just boring bulk ore and not trying to hunt down some elusive pink crystals.
Nero is indeed a very disturbed Romulan, but that's not beyond all cause. I recall reading about a certain corporal in the Bavarian Army who took his nation's defeat and subsequent treaty deprivations really hard and went on to cause the death of millions of innocents who had nothing whatsoever to do with it.
I was not disagreeing on any of these points.
I think it's great if CBS' version of ST reciprocates by acknowledging Paramount's, and if both parties can keep their franchises on good terms with each other. And I was saying before I found it INTERESTING that evidence (apparently) leans towards the likelihood of them doing so.
I would also defend their right NOT to do so, even though I happen to love the 2009 movie. But that seems more hypothetical now.
There are details about it the Kelvinverse that are best left unscrutinized in the context of traditional Star Trek, and might make a more cohesive mixture of both worlds "seem" problematic. Though the same is true for the Harve Bennett movies (my favorite period in ST). And really, I like my ST messy. I don't believe in making everything fit into a nice little perfect "canon" and would rather every production be as unique as possible.
Interesting analogy with the freighters, I like it.
Cutting through planets seems a little problematic considering how much really hot liquid is beneath us. Maybe Vulcan doesn't have that though (although I think I've heard that tectonic plates were believed prerequisite for a planet to support life? Maybe?) But then every phase of ST including Berman era has had its share of really wacky science.
Shouldn't reply to something you're not going to read.
The best I can come up with at the moment is this post I made in February referencing it, though there I indicate the Kurtzman's statement was "last week" so we're looking for something from mid February.
But yeah, one week after Kurtzman said they are allowed to use stuff from the movies, another writer said they weren't. Given Kurtzman is higher up the food chain, I'm inclined to believe him, but damn this shows how sloppy communication is on this show.
No, that's probably reserved for the next bad guy in Discovery Season 2 or The Picard series.
Between that and the John Eaves 25% thing, I really hope they all learn to communicate better for S2. Knowing what and why they can/can't do things can only make for a better show.
You need to read the Daily Bugle more often.
There's no plot requirement for Vulcan to be capable of supporting life, though. Not if the Vulcans themselves are transplants from the Sargonian Era of Greatness. The planet they were dumped on would not need the geological machinery for creating Earth-style life, nor the machinery for supporting a biosphere: the Sargonians could have done some terraforming that would hold for the mere tens of millennia required for the Vulcan species to sort out its way of life and take over the caretaking of their world.
If Vulcan were dead inside, where does all that geological activity come from that we see in ST:TMP or ENT? Tidal forces, probably. Vulcan has no moon, so the tides would come from something else. If it's from a passing neighboring planet, then the volcanism is something that comes and goes, with the geysirs perhaps pumping only once a year (the right time for Kolinahr ceremonies, of course).
Romulus might be much the same, if Remus indeed orbits the way Data's diagram suggests. Except there it's Remus that gets to bear the brunt of the tidal mayhem, apparently. But that's a rather mild sort of "wacky science".
Speaking of which, exoplanetology is pretty far out there even today. Tomorrow, we will quite probably have learned that Earth's unique setup with the giant moon and whatnot is far from the only one suited for our sort of life, and most of what we believe today turns out to be utterly false.
Timo Saloniemi
"Hobus" has never been referenced on-screen. CBS is doing the TV shows. Their policy amounts to "if it ain't on screen, it ain't canon!" So, until someone mentions "Hobus" on screen, it doesn't exist. Simple.
The only thing we know for certain that happened in the Prime timeline, is that a powerful supernova destroyed Romulus. It could have easily been Romulus' home star. Prime!Spock never said it wasn't. (And, just to be sure, I looked up a transcript--I was right: he said "a star".)
Um, the currently-released novels are set in late 2386. Romulus is destroyed in 2387. Its destruction is, at most, just a little over a year away--probably much closer.
He also always/never had a brother.
Both of these scenarios are very, very Romulan.
I got that reference!
***
For my part, I wish they would do away with the TNG Romulans altogether and adopt Diane Duane's Rihannsu in some way, instead. But that's just me.
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Sure, this horrible catastrophe happens, but by a miracle you happen to be whisked into the past before the disaster occurs. So obviously there is only one logical thing to do,
Your Geeky Sense was tingling!
Romulans aren't the logical ones...although I can see how one might make that mistake!
(Nero, even less so than most.)
-MMoM
A 130 odd years difference would see the modern freighter (with it's .50 caliber guns) going up against pre-dreadnought warships with up to 12 inch main guns and armored steel hulls of 6 inches or more.
The .50's would be useless, ramming would definitely result in the freighter's bow being caved in, and the freighters own hull would be tissue paper to even the 19th centuries warship's secondary guns.
The modern freighter might have maybe a 4 knot advantage in speed, and be able to run away at the pace of a fast walk..
Intriguingly enough, Nero very emphatically said/sprayed to Pike that he "prevented genocide!".
It apparently doesn't take much: just a droplet of red matter applied before it's too late. Nero would have had the red matter, and been there before it was too late. So why not take the insane lying bastard of a villain for his word?
This is more or less on par with the asymmetry we witness in the 2009 movie. Except it randomly goes in Nero's favor.
Perhaps the best analogy from today vs. WWI might be an oil drilling platform. Virtually unsinkable by a hail of inaccurate 6- to 11-inch gunfire in the time it takes the platform to deploy its seismic explosives and the recently acquired British nuclear device rainbow-codenamed Green Substance. Virtually immobile, too, much like Nero's clumsy rig which gets outrun by everything that flies in the movie. Unable to really defend itself close up or for any great length of time, as witnessed in two fights 25 years apart. Capable of extensive self-repair especially if given that 25-year gap. And a weapon of mass destruction if allowed to drill one of 'em Green Substances into the San Andreas fault or whatever. Plus, carries enough modern electronics and electric power to jam all wireless traffic and/or substitute its own, so that half the enemy fleet is at the Laurentius Islands anyway.
Timo Saloniemi
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