The Redshirt Myth?

[Christopher]

Yeah, "The Apple" is particularly egregious, because for the only time in the history of the series, they beam down a landing party so large that it takes two trips to send them all through, and that just makes it so obvious that the only reason those four guards were sent down was so that they could be killed off one by one.

 

[Warped9]

"The Apple" and "Obsession" are particularly hard on Security personnel. What is it, at least 7 or more in total over the two episodes?

Nomad kills two(?) in "The Changeling." Two die by accident in "And The Children Shall Lead." The rest are killed individually here and there. We have no idea if any Security personnel were among the 9 casualties mentioned by Spock in WNMHGB. We also don't know if any Security personnel died from their injuries after the alien with its influence departs in "Day Of The Dove."

 

[Shawnster]

I would think a security position would be the most dangerous, so it only stands to reason that TOS redshirts would have the largest body count.

 

[Vandervecken]

"The Apple" and "Obsession" are particularly hard on Security personnel. What is it, at least 7 or more in total over the two episodes?

Nomad kills two(?) in "The Changeling." Two die by accident in "And The Children Shall Lead." The rest are killed individually here and there. We have no idea if any Security personnel were among the 9 casualties mentioned by Spock in WNMHGB. We also don't know if any Security personnel died from their injuries after the alien with its influence departs in "Day Of The Dove."

4

And it was pretty absurd to assign ANY guards to Nomad period--and then two more? What were hand phasers going to do against it?

 

[CorporalCaptain]

"The Apple" and "Obsession" are particularly hard on Security personnel. What is it, at least 7 or more in total over the two episodes?

Nomad kills two(?) in "The Changeling." Two die by accident in "And The Children Shall Lead." The rest are killed individually here and there. We have no idea if any Security personnel were among the 9 casualties mentioned by Spock in WNMHGB. We also don't know if any Security personnel died from their injuries after the alien with its influence departs in "Day Of The Dove."

4

And it was pretty absurd to assign ANY guards to Nomad period--and then two more? What were hand phasers going to do against it?

The problem in "The Changeling" (one of several major problems in the script, the blue-y scene being at the top of the heap), is that the guards should have known better not to fire at Nomad, given what had happened at the beginning of the episode. Were they idiots? They should have simply monitored Nomad's movements and reported. Disintegrating the guards, as an unnecessary reply (doubtlessly Nomad was invulnerable to hand phasers) to an essentially implausible provocation, was just gratuitous TV violence.

 

[Warped9]

At least in TOS people didn't disintegrate like they did in TSFS when Kruge vaporized his own gunner. THAT was disturbing.

 

[Pauln6]

It's cheaper to kill redshirts than it is to give them lines.

 

[bbjeg]

Anyone know if more redshirts died in each series when compared to other starfleet deaths?

 

[Warped9]

Anyone know if more redshirts died in each series when compared to other starfleet deaths?

I think its roughly about fifty percent.

 

[Push The Button]

"The Apple" and "Obsession" are particularly hard on Security personnel. What is it, at least 7 or more in total over the two episodes?

Nomad kills two(?) in "The Changeling." Two die by accident in "And The Children Shall Lead." The rest are killed individually here and there. We have no idea if any Security personnel were among the 9 casualties mentioned by Spock in WNMHGB. We also don't know if any Security personnel died from their injuries after the alien with its influence departs in "Day Of The Dove."

Nomad kills (redshirt) Scotty also, but brings him back to life a few minutes later, so I guess we just call that one a push.

 

[Tiberius]

It's cheaper to kill redshirts than it is to give them lines.

"Now, Captain Kirk, why did you order that man to investigate the giant monster?"

"He was about to speak, and we couldn't afford to pay him for that, as we only have five spacedollars in petty cash."

 

[Warped9]

Overall the Security casualties seem to account for about 50% of the fatalities over the course of the series. Given the loss of entire crews (or nearly so) aboard other ships the loss rate aboard the Enterprise doesn't seem so alarming.

- Valiant (two centuries prior): entire crew and ship lost
- Horizon (a century prior): entire crew and ship lost
- Archon (a century prior): entire crew and ship lost
- Valiant (50 years prior): entire crew and ship lost
- Farragut (12 years earlier): half the crew lost
- Beagle (6 years prior): entire crew and ship lost
- Antares: entire crew and ship lost
- Constellation: entire crew and ship lost
- Exeter: entire crew lost (save for the Captain)
- Excalibur: entire crew lost due to M5 attack
- Lexington: unknown number of casualties due to M5 attack
- Hood: unknown number of casualties due to M5 attack
- Potemkin: unknown number of casualties due to M5 attack
- Intrepid: entire crew and ship lost
- Defiant: entire crew and ship lost

 

[Cyke101]

Overall the Security casualties seem to account for about 50% of the fatalities over the course of the series. Given the loss of entire crews (or nearly so) aboard other ships the loss rate aboard the Enterprise doesn't seem so alarming.

- Valiant (two centuries prior): entire crew and ship lost
- Horizon (a century prior): entire crew and ship lost
- Archon (a century prior): entire crew and ship lost
- Valiant (50 years prior): entire crew and ship lost
- Farragut (12 years earlier): half the crew lost
- Beagle (6 years prior): entire crew and ship lost
- Antares: entire crew and ship lost
- Constellation: entire crew and ship lost
- Exeter: entire crew lost (save for the Captain)
- Excalibur: entire crew lost due to M5 attack
- Lexington: unknown number of casualties due to M5 attack
- Hood: unknown number of casualties due to M5 attack
- Potemkin: unknown number of casualties due to M5 attack
- Intrepid: entire crew and ship lost
- Defiant: entire crew and ship lost

Yes, but it follows the same narrative logic that a Red shirt serves - other good guys die so that our heroes are either spared or can learn about the problem. TNG's first two seasons were also rife with this trope. Might as well paint their hulls red. But it's also kind of unfair to compare other one-off crews and ships to the primary crew of a TV show, since if the primary crew dies, so does the TV show. Really, there's no need to paint the Enterprise as unique since we already have two shows and 6 movies that deal with her exploits.

I showed my boyfriend BoBW and ST:FC, and when he put them together with STIX, he determined that the main purpose of Starfleet armadas was to blow them up (I haven't shown him the Dominion War, but I'm confident that he'll chalk that up as well).

 

[Timewalker]

"By Any Other Name" has a shocking choice of (red-dressed) victims. Did you tally up how many female crew members Kirk lost overall?

Dr. Dehner
The yeoman in "By Any Other Name"
Galway in "The Deadly Years"

Both Dehner and Galway were science personnel.

- Antares: entire crew and ship lost

Wouldn't the Thasians have restored them?

 

[Melakon]

My favorite redshirt death is still poor Grant in "Friday's Child".

"A Klingon!"
"Grant, no!"
*whoosh!* *thunk*

 

[ZapBrannigan]

"By Any Other Name" has a shocking choice of (red-dressed) victims. Did you tally up how many female crew members Kirk lost overall?

Dr. Dehner
The yeoman in "By Any Other Name"
Galway in "The Deadly Years"

Both Dehner and Galway were science personnel.

Thanks, that's a start. I also recall the psycho-tricorder girl in "Wolf in the Fold" dying. (And I don't believe that cock and bull story about a space demon. It had to be Scotty.)

Edit: I can't remember if Angela got strafed in "Shore Leave," or did she just run into the tree and get knocked out?

 

[Ssosmcin]

- Antares: entire crew and ship lost

Wouldn't the Thasians have restored them?

Sadly, no...

THASIAN: "We are saddened that his escape cost the lives of the first ship. We could not help them..."

 

[F. King Daniel]

"You see, none of them were main characters..."

 

[Christopher]

Edit: I can't remember if Angela got strafed in "Shore Leave," or did she just run into the tree and get knocked out?

Like McCoy, she was seemingly killed, but turned up intact at the end.

 

[BMariner]

Do we have any idea what the redshirt contingent was of a TOS-era Constitution Class starship? If redshirts accounted for more of the crew than any other group, it shouldn't be so alarming that the number of overall losses reflect that ratio.