The Redshirt Myth?

[DonIago]

Perhaps the reason for the episode-end levity is that the ship had a cloning chamber installed. This would also explain some of the character recurrences.

"He's not really dead, as long as we remember him...and our cloning chamber works."

Obviously Spock couldn't be regenerated because Khan's attack damaged the chamber, hence the sadness at the end of TWoK.

 

[Zaku]

It would be insensitive in-universe, but in real-world terms, the producers didn't want the viewers to go away depressed, so the conceit of a "happy ending" was used.

In Operation: Annihilate!, the brother of Kirk dies and the episodes ends with jokes about vulcan ears...

For a modern viewer, it can be unsettling... I can't imagine a episode of a modern tv show ending with a light note after a close relative of the main protagonist died...

 

[Peach Wookiee]

This shows TOS redshirt deaths. For those of you who are on tablets that don't show the vid, go to YouTube and type "I'm Alive Redshirts" and click on the 3:48 minute vid. The song is a bit appropo...

 

[Silvercrest]

^Yes, the episodes end with the crew joking, but they're not joking about the redshirt deaths ... the producers didn't want the viewers to go away depressed, so the conceit of a "happy ending" was used.

No, they're not, and like I said, it seems almost as bad — but there are worse things.

(Actually I thought I picked up that point from you. Have you posted in the past about the incongruity of humorous endings?)

Anyway, we still have, "Let's get the hell out of here." They could be serious when needed.

 

[Christopher]

No, they're not, and like I said, it seems almost as bad — but there are worse things.

(Actually I thought I picked up that point from you. Have you posted in the past about the incongruity of humorous endings?)

I'm not saying it can't be criticized. I'm saying, criticize it for what it actually is. The claim I was challenging was that they were joking about the redshirt deaths, which is simply untrue.

 

[Silvercrest]

Agreed!

 

[Garrovick]

I always thought "A Taste of Armageddon" was an interesting anomaly in this regard, since 3 redshirts (Yeoman Tamura plus Security guards Galloway and Osborne) beam down with Kirk at the beginning of the episode and all 3 of them survive despite the landing party spending a good part of the episode engaged in a more-or-less running firefight with the Eminian guards. The only Federation death in the episode was Fox's aide.

 

[Warped9]

I always thought "A Taste of Armageddon" was an interesting anomaly in this regard, since 3 redshirts (Yeoman Tamura plus Security guards Galloway and Osborne) beam down with Kirk at the beginning of the episode and all 3 of them survive despite the landing party spending a good part of the episode engaged in a more-or-less running firefight with the Eminian guards. The only Federation death in the episode was Fox's aide.

Was Fox's aide killed or merely stunned? We don't know.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Yep, we see the aide slumped over in a corner after a firefight, but we have no idea what eventually happened to him. He could have just been knocked unconscious.

 

[Timewalker]

I should think the Eminians would have preferred to stun him, because otherwise his death wouldn't be properly registered with the disintegration chambers.

 

[Garrovick]

Well, I will grant that the episode doesn't really go into details about the aide's fate. Just like it doesn't go into details about the workings of the Eminians' sonic disruptor weapons (on a side note, I never did understand how weapons based on sonic vibrations can affect a starship in orbit, but I suppose that's another thread), but I've always felt the aide was killed in that fight (and there's no reason his lifeless body couldn't be taken to a disintegration station later, anyway).

But I do stand by my actual point, which was that the episode is an anomaly in my opinion as regards the usual fate of redshirts who beam down and encounter a hostile situation.

 

[Christopher]

But I do stand by my actual point, which was that the episode is an anomaly in my opinion as regards the usual fate of redshirts who beam down and encounter a hostile situation.

I'm not sure I'd agree, because the trope of redshirts constantly dying didn't really emerge until season 2, notably in episodes like "The Apple," "Obsession," and "The Changeling." The only "redshirt deaths" in the first season were in "What Are Little Girls Made Of" (Rayburn & Matthews), "Arena" (O'Herlihy, though goldshirted Lang also dies), and "The Devil in the Dark" (one nameless security officer). The majority of onscreen crew deaths in season one were in gold, and red was tied with blue. So "Armageddon" was not an anomaly where the first season was concerned.

 

[Garrovick]

^^^ You have a good point in regards to Season 1; I was thinking more along the lines of TOS as a whole.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

Redshirt Olsen's death - from the 2009 film - could have been prevented. He was just a bit too cocky and silly.

A personal observation: I always find it interesting that the death of individuals in redshirts are celebrated and is a source of amusement, in a universe where life is supposedly precious, as well as equality, enlightenment, etc.

I don't believe, in universe, the deaths are seen as a source of amusement or celebrated.

But in fandom, and with people casually into Star Trek, it is.

(I wasn't too clear on that).

A personal observation: I always find it interesting that the death of individuals in redshirts are celebrated and is a source of amusement, in a universe where life is supposedly precious, as well as equality, enlightenment, etc.

I'd like one example when this was done.

One example:
Online forums.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Redshirt Olsen's death - from the 2009 film - could have been prevented. He was just a bit too cocky and silly.

A personal observation: I always find it interesting that the death of individuals in redshirts are celebrated and is a source of amusement, in a universe where life is supposedly precious, as well as equality, enlightenment, etc.

I don't believe, in universe, the deaths are seen as a source of amusement or celebrated.

But in fandom, and with people casually into Star Trek, it is.

(I wasn't too clear on that).

A personal observation: I always find it interesting that the death of individuals in redshirts are celebrated and is a source of amusement, in a universe where life is supposedly precious, as well as equality, enlightenment, etc.

I'd like one example when this was done.

One example:
Online forums.

Still not in universe.

And I don't see a problem making light of the tropes of fiction.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

I don't believe, in universe, the deaths are seen as a source of amusement or celebrated.

But in fandom, and with people casually into Star Trek, it is.

(I wasn't too clear on that).

I'd like one example when this was done.

One example:
Online forums.

Still not in universe.

And I don't see a problem making light of the tropes of fiction.

Yeah, again, I wasn't talking about in-universe.

That's fine if you don't see a problem with it. I do, and I find it contradicts all the 'we are the world' aspect of Star Trek that some fans try to put on the series when death is made light of - again 'out of universe.'

As aforementioned, if you don't find a problem with it, that's on you. You're free to have that opinion.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Redshirt Olsen's death - from the 2009 film - could have been prevented. He was just a bit too cocky and silly.

A personal observation: I always find it interesting that the death of individuals in redshirts are celebrated and is a source of amusement, in a universe where life is supposedly precious, as well as equality, enlightenment, etc.

I don't believe, in universe, the deaths are seen as a source of amusement or celebrated.

But in fandom, and with people casually into Star Trek, it is.

(I wasn't too clear on that).

A personal observation: I always find it interesting that the death of individuals in redshirts are celebrated and is a source of amusement, in a universe where life is supposedly precious, as well as equality, enlightenment, etc.

I'd like one example when this was done.

One example:
Online forums.

Thanks of clarifying, but I don't believe I can be fairly faulted for taking

"is a source of amusement, in a universe where life is supposedly precious, as well as equality, enlightenment, etc."​

to mean

"is a source of amusement, in-universe."​

I also don't have a problem making fun of corny elements of the show.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

I don't believe, in universe, the deaths are seen as a source of amusement or celebrated.

But in fandom, and with people casually into Star Trek, it is.

(I wasn't too clear on that).

I'd like one example when this was done.

One example:
Online forums.

Thanks of clarifying, but I don't believe I can be fairly faulted for taking

"is a source of amusement, in a universe where life is supposedly precious, as well as equality, enlightenment, etc."​

to mean

"is a source of amusement, in-universe."​

I've already answered this in post #76.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I've already answered this in post #76.

You mean that post you made before I had replied to your last reply to me? That post #76?

 

[Nerys Myk]

]

Yeah, again, I wasn't talking about in-universe.

That's fine if you don't see a problem with it. I do, and I find it contradicts all the 'we are the world' aspect of Star Trek that some fans try to put on the series when death is made light of - again 'out of universe.'

As aforementioned, if you don't find a problem with it, that's on you. You're free to have that opinion.

Well some fans take a tv show a little too seriously. It's not a religion, a phiosophy or a blue print of the future. It's entertainment. Sure it can ask questions, enlighten and inform, but its still a tv show. And the people who watch are human beings who laugh and make jokes at tragedies both fictional and real. We can also separate the two. We can laugh at the constant redshirt deaths on a tv show and cry at the deaths of innocents in the real word. This doesn't make inhuman, inconsistent or unworthy.