Spoilers The Reality War grade and discussion thread

[DigificWriter]

my only real issue with it is how she is undoubtedly another placeholder Doctor,

This is in doubt, actually.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Interesting that she's credited as "Introducing Billie Piper" and not "Introducing Billie Piper as the Doctor," like usual.

If I'm being charitable, there is some connection between the heart of the TARDIS/vortex and Rose Tyler per The Parting of the Ways which could be handwaved as a clever explanation for this arse pull next season.

I know everyone is going to debate endlessly about whether or not Billie is actually The Doctor when we all she probably is, but I do like this one possibility. Billie has already played The Moment with a built-in explanation for her appearance so why not here with the Heart of the TARDIS?

And Anita from the Time Hotel!

When she appeared, I briefly held onto hope that we were going to get an interesting episode about the shifting of realities via the portals of the Time Hotel. Instead, we got...what we got. Still, I did like the idea of the Time Hotel was used to bring down the wish world veil at UNIT HQ.

Besides, it's always good to both ANita and the Time Hotel again and I can only hope we'll see them again, especially with her namedropping the Boss.

Overall, though… all the feels, none of the thinks.

Which, honestly is all of Davies' finales. Problem is that only worked for me with "The Stolen Earth/"Journey's End," the one time I was fine with turning off my brain and following my heart.

Something I forgot to mention in my previous post: damn, that music was both overbearing and bad. Bring back Segun Akinola!

A. Fucking. Men.

I've never been a fan of Murray Gold's music. He does have some gorgeous quiet pieces but those are the exceptions. Whereas, I loved everything Segun Akinola produced. His music enhanced the episodes and didn't overwhelm and dictate them like Gold's music often did.

I really didn't want Ncuti to go though, he's been wonderful and he hasn't been around nearly long enough. But he's going to be a huge star.

I'm sad and disappointed he's leaving but I'm not even remotely surprised. The writing has been on the wall for a long time. The fact that we've known that has helped lessen the pain a bit.

Why did Rose (Nobel) appear but then disappear? Her acting's improved at least.

Yeah, that was very weird. Just more of Davies absurdity, squeezing everything in but with no sense. Hell, while I'm glad Mel was around to get her requisite face off with The Rani, she didn't have much to do (aside from looking cool on her Vespa), although that moment didn't land nearly as hard as Sarah Jane's reunion with Davros.

What happened with Susan? Heard a theory that maybe she originally was the one to help Ncuti with the regeneration but maybe the dynamic didn't work for some reason so they grabbed Jodie.

Like I said in my review, I'm hoping she's a hanging thread that will be explored in the series. Fingers crossed.

That said, it's annoying to throw that thread out there this series and not do that much with it.

So if everybody else hated it, how are their 7 8 rating including mine.

The (very) loud minority has that effect.

Possibly a controversial opinion but I'm glad Archie Rani got eaten and Mrs Flood Rani escaped to maybe come back!

Even though I'm not a fan of the dynamic we saw played out between them (despite making sense considering The Rani's arrogance), I would love to see both of them return. Perhaps they can return separately but I guess that would confuse some people...

How many people believed them? They might still have been surprised, if for no other reason than "Dang, the squealer was right!"

It's got people talking.

A rung bell can't be unheard and all of that. Which is precisely my issue with the discussions of rumors.

(There’s a part of me that wants to gleefully tweak angry Internet fandom by writing fanfiction about the Billie Piper-faced 16th Doctor running around in Discovery’s late 32nd-century Federation.)

Doooooo iiiiitttttt!

 

[diankra]

Here's my take on all the NuWho finales (excluding the 2013 and 2023 specials).

Series 1: a two-parter that would've worked just as well without the regeneration, but it helps elevate an already intense story to higher highs and is a good cap-off for the Ninth Doctor.
Series 2: frankly, not great, but it does have the novelty of a Dalek/Cybermen showdown, which remains a novelty. Also, Doctor/Rose departure still feels monumental and iconic to this day.
Series 3: when i first watched, I hated the last episode, but after watching all of Who, and listening to so much of it too, I've grown to appreciate it more. Overall fine, but with caveats.
Series 4: a spectacular blockbuster entry, whether you like it or not - and I love it (it especially works if you pair it with Turn Left).
2008/09 Specials: a mess, but the parts that worked REALLY worked, and even the parts that didn't don't drag the story for me - and the most iconic regeneration scene ever.
Series 5: a fantastic conclusion to a very ambitious story arc, perhaps the best (certainly one of three)
Series 6: underwhelming, but I like to believe by design
Series 7: Name of the Doctor, short as it is (and it does feel very short) is amazing and spectacular fanwank.No one can condense story arcs in such a short time as Moffat can.
Series 8: an okay one, though the first part is better
Series 9: same, but I like both a lot (and Heaven Sent is gold standard)
Series 10: potentially the best series finale of all of Who, and the best Cybermen story on TV.
Series 11: sorry, this was a series finale??
Series 12: someone rip my fucking heart out
Series 13: everything Name of the Doctor was, but less good (far, far less)

Now, with StreamingWho, we have:
Series 1: Well, at least the first part is intense, and the second is severely undercooked, but not outwardly terrible
Series 2: A wishy-washy tale about a returning villain who, unlike Sutekh in the previous series, is instead presented as a joke Mummy who eats the amazing Rani, just as she's returned, babies that shouldn't exist but actually do, the retconning of Belinda as a working mom (huh?), Ruby being a Time Psychic (??!??) who can sense when times change BUT NOT THE LITERAL TIME LORD STANDING RIGHT NEXT TO HER, a completely pointless Doctor cameo (again, best scene in the entire episode, but the point of the Thirteenth Doctor in this? other than for RTD to completely redeem her horrible exit from her own regeneration story?), and a regeneration sequence that makes zero sense in any stretch of the imagination (so, what happened to the other characters from the reality he abandoned? are they still there? what the fucking hell is going on?) that totally falls flat on its face.

Overall, this series finale took the worst aspects of the previous finale (OldWho villain returns, maximum universe bending climaxes resolved in intimate ways) and overblown them to extremes. What is the point of bringing back Omega if he's going to be a parody of himself? I know some argue he was already a one-dimensional character, but at least make him a recognisable foe, not this abomination that could have literally any title slashed onto him and still serve the same function. And he gets to eat the Rani, a fantastic performance by two incredible actresses, making Rani's return entirely and completely pointless.

Bottom line: Unlike Moffat, RTD is seemingly unable to resolve and end an era in the same sense of resolution and finality. The Fifteenth Doctor, for me, just barely started to feel familiar and with this reduced episode count, the era is little more than just three episodes longer than Eccleston's - yet that era presented a more complete portrayal and characterization of the Doctor, whereas there were several Doctor-lite episodes that, at the time, seemed designed to give Ncuti Gatwa some time off to keep him both available for other projects and interested and involved enough with the program. But in the end, it was all for naught, with the only Doctor that we'll never see battle the Daleks or the Cybermen since McGann.

I won't even touch the Billie Piper as the Doctor thing, but suffice to say, she may well not be the Doctor - but if she ends up being the Doctor anyway, go fuck yourself RTD.

PS: Seeing Jodie in this TARDIS was so, so nice, and proves again that the comments on her shitty TARDIS were all correct. Wish this was a proper multi-Doctor special in the end, instead.

Another PS: The fuck was the point of Susan coming back?? I thought this was gonna be a big plot point????

Technically, and this obviously doesn't count in any real sense, but still wrote a lot around that Doctor, right? Basically his entire backstory (the Time War, the battles the RTD1 Doctors mention him having fought in it, etc) and even key details that would end up as part of Day of the Doctor were shown by RTD himself, so I like to think he at least contributed to his lore.

But yeah, he didn't get to write for either of them, and its so odd to see Capaldi's Doctor singeled out. But, again and again, RTD single-handedly redeemed the Doctor's awful treatment to Yaz, despite her appearence not making a lick of sense (like, clearly, you cut this bit, the episode still "works" fine, no?).

Fair point, too.

What about the Curator? Do books count, as he wrote for Seven and Thirteen too, in that case.

How has Chibs written for Five, Six, Seven and Eight? Wouldn't One count, if the Doctors in the Doctorafterlife count? If not, surely the Five/Seven projections aren't really them, but projections of Thirteen?

Do audios count? Cause in that case, he wrote for Six and Seven (the latter adapted from a book he wrote in the 90's)

I wonder if Kurtzman & Co. would be any more open to Dr. Who crossover than Berman and Co. were? I think I read somewhere that during his original time in charge of DW that RTD wanted to do an Enterprise crossover, but the Star Trek people weren't interesed, but now the shows are overlapping again and we do have a new regime in charge of Star Trek. A crossover with Dr. Who really wouldn't be any crazier than the Those Old Scientists or Subspace Rhapsody.

The problem seems to have been a simple matter of timing. Doctor Who restarted in March 2005. and Enterprise had already been cancelled. There might have been a tiny window for a crossover, but it was before Who had comeback, and would have complicated schedules on an outgoing series.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Yeah, that was very weird. Just more of Davies absurdity, squeezing everything in but with no sense. Hell, while I'm glad Mel was around to get her requisite face off with The Rani, she didn't have much to do (aside from looking cool on her Vespa), although that moment didn't land nearly as hard as Sarah Jane's reunion with Davros.

I'm wonder if the save Poppy story was a late addition. Ruby's hair looked different. Mel was "off site" and Rose N was gone.

 

[Awesome Possum]

I loved it.

I'm so glad I managed to avoid spoilers.

Loved seeing 13 again. I'm disappointed that Ncuti is leaving, I really wanted more of him. I wanted him to find Rogue.

But Billie Piper as 16? Yes, yes, a thousand times yes.

 

[FredH]

My biggest gripe is sadly I felt like we've not really gotten to know 15 that well. It feels like his story arc is incomplete.

Honestly, I feel that way almost every time there’s a regeneration, like they only just got here.

 

[FredH]

Doooooo iiiiitttttt!

(Maybe she could take Rey Skywalker as a companion, to make the trifecta complete.)

 

[cultcross]

So the doctor has forgotten about poor Jenny.

Georgia Tennant as The Boss seems right in RTD's wheelhouse

 

[JoeZhang]

The poppy aspects had all sorts of problems - Kirk is right how they metaphorically and literally put Bel in a box.

The bigger problem is that the viewer has no reason to give a shit about poppy - an older child actor with some dialogue might have worked.

 

[StarMan]

I started checking out of Who during the Capaldi era and tapped out completely after Jodie's first season. Managed one of Tennant's specials before tapping out again. Point is, I don't go out of my way to follow any Who news / spoilers. So, seeing Gatwa's regeneration pop up on my YouTube feed was a surprise and ... well, THAT was unexpected.

It was enough to provoke me to watch the finale - ironically the only Gatwa-era episode I've seen. I followed along well enough, in spite of not having a clue about the wishes or the backstories to Ruby and the latest companion.

I don't think I mind Gatwa in the role; as was the case with Capaldi and Whittaker, I think they could've been great with a decent writers' room backing them up (not that I can speak to Gatwa's tenure given his last episode is the first of his I've seen).

I didn't mind some scenes in isolation, but overall, I'm not convinced by anything I've seen to go back and check out the latest RTD era. I wouldn't have given it a second thought had it not been for the flagrant stunt casting I caught on YouTube.

The one bit of news I have seen is the next season and DIsney's involvement is up in the air. It's impressive they managed to squeeze another 20 years out of the franchise since the 2005 revival, but maybe a bit of a break wouldn't hurt (along with a restraining order on RTD).

 

[jaime]

Poppy being The Doctor's daughter was a corruption of reality.

Poppy’s existence was. That’s why she was stuck in the zero room. Belinda didn’t have a daughter, and lived in shared Nurses accomodation. Then the Doctor spaffed a regen into the Vortex, moved the whole of reality a degree, all to bring back the daughter they both conceived against their wishes and didn’t remember being born an episode ago. Instead he created another version, and made Belinda a single mum (with an oddly posh house) but…. That’s alright then.

 

[jaime]

Does anyone remember if Rose Noble even got a line?

 

[The Wormhole]

How has Chibs written for Five, Six, Seven and Eight?

They all appear at the Telephone Pole of Doctors Past in Power of the Doctor.

Wouldn't One count, if the Doctors in the Doctorafterlife count?

Was he there? I actually don't remember.

 

[cultcross]

The poppy aspects had all sorts of problems - Kirk is right how they metaphorically and literally put Bel in a box.

The bigger problem is that the viewer has no reason to give a shit about poppy - an older child actor with some dialogue might have worked.

I'm assuming that, pre reshoot, Poppy just vanished and they flew off into the sunset in a reset button where only the viewers were the wiser. The rumours that the show originally ended on a big party scene suggest a happy ending. To get us to the new ending they had to have some wishes holding, some not for no real reason and Ruby remembering which is which for no real reason.

 

[Captaindemotion]

Did anyone else feel that Ruby was weirdly absent from the last few scenes?

 

[cultcross]

The episode was over-companioned so I felt all of them had bit parts at most. 3 hour sequence of hugging all the characters we've met the last two years, then most of them don't contribute to the story at all.

 

[Relayer1]

Typical RTD incoherently plotted mess season ending, but I actually enjoyed this one.

So, trailing threads and predictions -

Susan still to return.

Susan's mother / origin still unclear. I'm back to Jenny as prime candidate.

Can Flood/Rani regenerate again ?

Will NuRani escape Omega ?

What is Fourteen up to ?

Will Sixteen just do a few specials or a proper run ?

My money is on Fourteen turning up at the end of Sixteen's tenure and de-bigenerating before hey both turn into Seventeen.

 

[Australis]

Oh, I'll just note that all three "surprises" really were surprises for me, Whittaker's cameo, Gatwa's regeneration and Piper's reveal. Well, I had stumbled across rumors of Ncuti's departure (primarily via various Tharries' videos addressing that as "rumor") but thankfully no confirmation. But Whittaker's and Piper's appearances, those were flat out genuine for me! Yes, I somehow avoided even rumors of their reveals! Maybe I should buy a lottery ticket?

I wasn't spoiled either. Seeing Jodie was actually lovely - never liked her stories, but a bit of redemption. And I admit my jaw was on the ground when I saw (alleged) Sixteen, though thinking about it, I'm inclined towards a RTD mindfuck.

Point to ponder: by shifting reality one degree, Fifteen has created an alternate universe. In inverse to his last speech to Belinda, something bad is happening somewhere.

And (alleged) Sixteen's first word was Ten's first word.

 

[Australis]

Oh, and I would like to see a multi Doctor story with Gatwa, Capaldi (I know he said he wouldn't, but I'd like to try), Whittaker and maybe Smith. McGann would be cool too.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

They all appear at the Telephone Pole of Doctors Past in Power of the Doctor.

Was he there? I actually don't remember.

Yes.