The Pro-Diversity in Trek Lit thread

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by JD, Apr 7, 2012.

  1. Defcon

    Defcon Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Reed?
     
  2. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

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    That's the one!
     
  3. BritishSeaPower

    BritishSeaPower Captain Captain

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    Heck, Kirk's last name means Church! The evidence we have is that Kirk's a believer in something like the Judeo-Christian-Islamic God. McCoy expresses similar sentiments as well.

    Picard has been demonstrated as a non-believer, though never outright said. Sisko is much the same before his embraces the Prophets, but that's more "spiritual" than religious. I'm pretty sure that Joseph Sisko is implied to be religious as well. But it's been a while since I've seen Image in the Sand.
     
  4. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    1. "Far Beyond the Stars" featured visions of the 1950s, not the 1930s.

    2. Sisko didn't "make a big deal about race." He expressed discomfort once, in one episode, with the Vic Fontaine holoprogram, because it ignored the historical reality about how black Americans were actually oppressed in early 1960s Las Vegas. That's a completely reasonable concern to have, as it essentially boils down to being concerned that real history was being (no pun intended) "whitewashed." He at no point expresses a belief that black Americans Humans of his era were in any way oppressed, nor any prejudice whatsoever against white American Humans, nor does he display any sort of fixation on race. (And, by the end of the episode, he is persuaded that Kassidy's argument--that Vic represents history as it should have been rather than as it was--is valid.)
     
  5. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I am reminded of these threads from almost (Oh.:eek: My. :eek:God.:eek:) four years ago...:eek::eek:

    Ah, Dayton3. Whatever happened to him, anyway? Not that I want him to come back or anything... :rofl:
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2012
  6. Sjaddix

    Sjaddix Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    lol that is bad way to do history, history about what was not how it should have been. we got plenty of school boards right now trying to "sanitize" history books so white people don't have to feel bad about any of their ancestors actions in the new world.

    still yes no need for more straight white males. increases for every other group are warranted. Although trek is towards the top tier in scifi, it could certainly be better.
     
  7. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    But the Vic Fontaine holoprogram wasn't a history course, it was a work of entertainment for people who presumably have already gotten a thorough history education, but who want an entertainment experience that isn't as depressing as a realistic depiction of history would be. You might as well complain that Star Trek is a bad way to teach astrophysics.
     
  8. MatthiasRussell

    MatthiasRussell Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Yes!!! What Star Trek needs is more equations!!! Could we get some orbital mechanics problems in trek lit? (With the answers in the back of the book)
     
  9. Smitty

    Smitty Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Well, they might meeting the white male part of the equation but I do no recall any of them being particularly christian so they do not count on that regard. Although I do believe they all have expressed their heterosexual tendencies.

    PS - Greg Cox, I am almost finished with the Rings of Time, as in I am at chapter 26. Awesome! Thank you!
     
  10. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    I don't think the TV shows ever commented on Pike's sexuality or religious affiliation.
     
  11. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

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    Well, given that the entire plot of "The Cage" was about Pike being tempted by Vina, and "The Menagerie" was about allowing Pike to live happily ever after with her, I think we can assume he was straight!

    Let's give the Talosians the benefit of the doubt and I assume they picked a straight male for their breeding program! :)

    (Plus, all those fantasies of Green Orion slave girls, etcetera were supposedly plucked from Pike's own mind . . . .)
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2012
  12. MatthiasRussell

    MatthiasRussell Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Forget being diverse in regards to the different aspects of humanity and the many white males. Just showing so many hiumans isn't very diverse considering the human population within the UFP (and probably Starfleet) is a minority. Proper balance and diversity would involve far more alien characters, alien religions, and alien forms of sexuality.

    However, for us as viewers and readers to find the characters relatable and understandable, central characters would need to represent the kinds of lifestyles we know in the present, Too much alien diversity can make a story become so filled with strange terminology and behavior that it actually harms the viewing/reading experience.
     
  13. Brikar99

    Brikar99 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ...Wow. Those were... special... :eek:
     
  14. Dave Scarpa

    Dave Scarpa Commander Red Shirt

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    Thank You. And it's about time someone did. The current political machine on both sides have spread so much hate to deflect from what they are doing and so many people get dragged down to it. I'm amazed how so many Trek fans can call themselves fans with the level of Intolerance they Spout. Trek was nothing if Not about teaching tolerence and how we can make a better world. These "Fans" cast off that and just look at the cool Spaceships and settings, but Trek is about More. And certainly was never about Hate.
     
  15. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    But Pike looks downright disturbed when face to face with the Orion slave girl. And he never really seems comfortable with any of the three women the Talosians try to pair him with.

    Now obviously the original intent was never for Pike to be gay. But when you look at the actions through a 21st century lense, I think a case could be made for him being gay. Or at least there's nothing present in The Cage to rule it out.
     
  16. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

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    That's an interesting interpretation but Pike's discomfort can be easily explained by the fact that weird aliens are trying to force him to mate for their own creepy purposes. And, of course, he's uncomfortable with having his own crew members offered to him as captive breeding partners--which would be awkward under the best of circumstances!

    Plus, like I said, those sexy fantasies were supposedly plucked from Pike's own mind. If he looks uncomfortable, that's probably because hostile aliens are messing with his mind and forcing him to hallucinate. (That's probably a turn-off for some people.)

    And, with 300-some specimens to choose from, why would telepathic aliens choose a gay man for their breeding program?

    Anyway, given that the one-and-only Pike episode revolves around his relationship with Vina, it seems odd to assert that the show never dealth with Pike's sexuality. Heck, that's about all it dealt with. . . :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2012
  17. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Uhh, that doesn't show he's gay, just that he's anti-slavery.

    Ditto -- he resists the temptation because he knows it's an attempt to enslave or manipulate him. It's rather bizarre to think that sexual orientation is the only issue at play in that context. It's not like he met Vina at a party somewhere. He was a prisoner being subjected to psychological manipulation. Of course he's uncomfortable. And the more attracted he is to the woman that's being thrown at him as part of that manipulation, the more he's going to resist it.


    Except that the Talosians can read minds. They didn't kidnap him at random, they chose him because they decided he was the ideal specimen for their breeding program.

    Now, one could argue that being gay wouldn't prevent someone from procreating if it were necessary for species survival or something. But if he were gay, the Talosians wouldn't have used Vina as a sexual temptation, because they would've known in advance that it wouldn't work on him.
     
  18. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

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    Plus, the only episode about Pike that ever aired ended with him living happily ever after with Vina . . . .

    So it's a stretch to assume that the Pike/Vina story is anything other than what it appears to be.
     
  19. Fer

    Fer Commander Red Shirt

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    The Talosians also pulled the Christian image of Hell from his mind, but they referred to it as being "from a fable you once heard in childhood." Even assuming that the "fable" part was a judgment being made by the Talosians on the concept in general, if Pike had currently believed in it I'd expect they would have said something more like "from your fable of the afterlife" or "from a fable you learned in childhood."
     
  20. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Honestly, there wasn't much about the Talosians plan from The Cage that made sense. They captured a man in his prime to procreate with a broken down woman. Not to mention that two people wouldn't be a viable base for a new race.