The positive Voyager thread: What was good with the series?

[Abi Smith]

Voyager was the last Trek that gave us anything approaching multifaceted Vulcans; thanks to Tuvok and Vorik.
Writers since have utterly misunderstood how the pursuit of logic would dictate a culture with emotions that are too strong; thanks to ENT giving us intellectually regressive racists.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

According to Garrett Wang, Voyager's writers would give characters dialogue that was intended to scold the actors for their bad behavior. I believe the tension between Torres and Seven of Nine should be seen in this light: the writers admonishing Dawson for her treatment if Ryan.

 

[Lynx]

Voyager was the last Trek that gave us anything approaching multifaceted Vulcans; thanks to Tuvok and Vorik.
Writers since have utterly misunderstood how the pursuit of logic would dictate a culture with emotions that are too strong; thanks to ENT giving us intellectually regressive racists.

Well, compared to the writing in Enterprise and Discovery, berman, Braga and their staff were actually good!

 

[fireproof78]

It's easy to be good with writing technobabble

 

[Prax]

10 technobabble advisors just got offended.

 

[jmidnight_99]

Well, compared to the writing in Enterprise and Discovery, berman, Braga and their staff were actually good!

What was wrong with Enterprise?

There are below par episodes in every series, starting with the original. There was also some amazing science fiction in every series, starting with the original. I've never seen Discovery.

What exactly do you enjoy? We all have different tastes, but yours it hard to figure out. You seem to like episodes that center around weak female leads or other weak or supporting characters, and reject complex story lines.

I admit, I'm really confused.

 

[Lynx]

What was wrong with Enterprise?

There are below par episodes in every series, starting with the original. There was also some amazing science fiction in every series, starting with the original. I've never seen Discovery.

What exactly do you enjoy? We all have different tastes, but yours it hard to figure out. You seem to like episodes that center around weak female leads or other weak or supporting characters, and reject complex story lines.

I admit, I'm really confused.

"Been dazed and confused for so long"
Ah, never mind! Back to topic.

Well, I have a broad taste when it comes to what I like. As for TV series in common, I like good stories, good characters who I can relate to and like and some interesting twist in the tales here and there. I do like complex story lines.

What I don't like are character destruction and doom-and-gloom series which have been so common in this boring decade.

As for action TV series I like series like Star Trek, Stargate, NCIS, CSI, Hawaii 5 0, Without A Trace and similar items.

Weak female leads?

Not at all. I like female characters who are interesting in many ways in both looks and performance. Among my favorites are Ro Laren, Kira Nerys, Jadzia Dax, Kathryn Janeway, B'Elanna Torres, Kes, Ezri Dax, Vash, Tasha Yar, Ziva David, Kate Todd, Meredith Brody, Catherine Willows, Sara Sidle, Samantha Carter etc.

I don't think you can call them "weak female characters".

Often I have a "gut feeling" for series. In Star Trek Voyager and NCIS, I took an immediate liking to all characters and the scenario. In other series,like DS9, TNG, TOS, CSI and Stargate, I've started to like some of the characters and the premise for the series, then I've learned to like the characters more and more. When I started to watch DS9, I thought it was sort of a "TNG minor team" in sports terms but during the series I started to like the characters more and more and also the development of the series so today I can actually describe me as a "Niner".

As for Stargate SG-1, it was the same thing and I also got a good feeling for Atlantis from the beginning. But I couldn't stand Stargate Universe. Despite a good premise it was too much doom and gloom, downright bad characters ald lousy storytelling.

Almost the same for Enterprise, weak uninteresting characters (except for Trip Tucker) and a badly made retro series which looked more like a spin-off to Voyager than a pre-TOS series. If you want good TOS retro, watch the DS9 episode "Trials And Tribble Actions".That's the way it should be done.

As for "Discovery", it makes "Enterprise" look like a mastepiece. Enough said!

 

[jmidnight_99]

Almost the same for Enterprise, weak uninteresting characters (except for Trip Tucker) and a badly made retro series which looked more like a spin-off to Voyager than a pre-TOS series. If you want good TOS retro, watch the DS9 episode "Trials And Tribble Actions".That's the way it should be done.

As for "Discovery", it makes "Enterprise" look like a mastepiece. Enough said!

They couldn't make the Enterprise ship look like the 60s show.

I didn't find the characters uninteresting at all, in fact, I found them to be very realistic. You had to work to get to know them. I found that I had to watch through that series a few times to really get where they were going with it. Again, like every ST series, there were excellent episodes and a few klunkers, but overall the stories were good. And like every ST series, some stories were "generic", that is they could have been given to any one of the series, and the story would have worked.

What can I say... I don't follow the crowd. I like Wesley Crusher, and I like Enterprise.

The one thing on ENT I didn't like... Shran. He should have been played by someone else. Jeffrey Coombs just got off of a long stint as Weyoun on DS9, and all I saw was Weyoun, and I didn't care for it. Since we're on the subject, another ST "regular" James Sloyan also showed up a few times too many. His portrayal of that doctor "Jetrel" on Voyager made me want to beat Sloyan to death with Neelix's dead body. What a stupid, stupid episode. A million dead Talaxians and this idiot just happens to hunt down Neelix... and guess what? He finds him! You really think Ethan Philips is a "good" actor, huh?

I've heard nothing but bad things about Discovery. I don't know why they changed the Klingons. The Klingons were changed for the TOS movies. It made sense, there was no budget for the 60's show... even if they had the makeup technology. TNG was able to continue with the TOS movie Klingons , and even expand on them. There was no need... after all the Klingon mythology, to change them for the new show. I also heard that they are over the top PC. Who needs it?

 

[Prax]

Shran is definitely overrated in my humble opinion. He just loves Archer a little too much. And the actor's over the top style that worked excellently for ferengi characters or Weyoun, who is supposed to be a strange slimy slick talker, doesn't work as well for a militant leader.

 

[Lynx]

They couldn't make the Enterprise ship look like the 60s show.

I didn't find the characters uninteresting at all, in fact, I found them to be very realistic. You had to work to get to know them. I found that I had to watch through that series a few times to really get where they were going with it. Again, like every ST series, there were excellent episodes and a few klunkers, but overall the stories were good. And like every ST series, some stories were "generic", that is they could have been given to any one of the series, and the story would have worked.

What can I say... I don't follow the crowd. I like Wesley Crusher, and I like Enterprise.

The one thing on ENT I didn't like... Shran. He should have been played by someone else. Jeffrey Coombs just got off of a long stint as Weyoun on DS9, and all I saw was Weyoun, and I didn't care for it. Since we're on the subject, another ST "regular" James Sloyan also showed up a few times too many. His portrayal of that doctor "Jetrel" on Voyager made me want to beat Sloyan to death with Neelix's dead body. What a stupid, stupid episode. A million dead Talaxians and this idiot just happens to hunt down Neelix... and guess what? He finds him! You really think Ethan Philips is a "good" actor, huh?

I've heard nothing but bad things about Discovery. I don't know why they changed the Klingons. The Klingons were changed for the TOS movies. It made sense, there was no budget for the 60's show... even if they had the makeup technology. TNG was able to continue with the TOS movie Klingons , and even expand on them. There was no need... after all the Klingon mythology, to change them for the new show. I also heard that they are over the top PC. Who needs it?

As I see it, if they absolutely wanted to make a retro series (which I never understood why), then they should have nade it like it was in TOS. Just look at the DS9 flashback episode "Trials And Tribble Actions". That's the way they should have done it.

Personally I never understood why they scrapped the amazing 24th century with all the exciting species, worlds and plots whih they had just to do a second-rate TOS copy. I guess I'm abit like Sisko there when the Prophets told him "You exist here!" I still exist in the 24th century.

You have been a bit critical to some of my favorite female characters but what about Hoshi Sato? She was really what you accused Kes, Ezri Dax and Yar to be. And I won't go into T'Pol now.

But all of us have different taste in many things.

As for Shran, I didn't watch that many episodes of Enterprise so I hardly remember him. He didn't make any particular impression on me.

But I really like the episode "Jetrel". It was a thoughtful episode with a lot od depth. It also showed that Neelix wasn't just a "funny character" but a person with a very tragic background, something which also explains his odd behavior in many ways.

As for Discovery, well we seem to have the same opinion on that one.