The Phantom Menace at 20: A Defense

Discussion in 'Star Wars' started by cooleddie74, May 19, 2019.

  1. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    I do to.

    Also, what's funny is I found the term wizard used in a WW1 pilot story, used as pilot slang.
     
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  2. Mach5

    Mach5 Vice Admiral Admiral

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  3. HaventGotALife

    HaventGotALife Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Star Wars is not my favorite universe. The rank list is as follows:

    1. The Empire Strikes Back
    2. The Phantom Menace
    3. A New Hope
    4. The Force Awakens
    5. The Last Jedi
    6. The Return of the Jedi
    7. Revenge of the Sith
    8. Attack of the Clones

    Menace contains Palpatine manipulating the Trade Federation and Queen Amidala. The scenes on Tatooine are the meat for the rest of the trilogy. They will harken to his mother's "stopping the sun's from setting" the slave/master relationship to power, midichlorian counts, the prophecy, his relationship to his mother, etc. The ship is able to show the over reliance on technology, without making Yoda and Obi-Wan idiots. Anakin is shown as capable and talented. There is much symbolism, and the best fight in the history of Star Wars. While the showdown with Obi-Wan in Sith was choreographed well, it was cheap CGI, and used too many un-relating sets.

    Jar-Jar is jarring to watch, no doubt. But, no worse than R2 in Sith or 3PO in Clones. I hit skip. And using him to show the upstairs/downstairs of Naboo was interesting since ignorance plays a large role in the Sith's power grab.

    The funeral scene and celebration are tremendous. They establish some truth about the sith and foreshadow the coming movies.

    I don't hate this one. Now, don't get me started on II. Terrible film.
     
  4. Smellmet

    Smellmet Commodore Commodore

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    I rewatched TPM and ATOC back to back at the weekend and I've started to come to the conclusion that TPM is the superior movie to it's sequel after years of preferring Clones. I don't know if it's the visuals that have aged better, or something else, but watching them back to back, ATOC seems to be very poorly paced for the first hour (bar the chase) then just seems to explode into a CG fest - with some of it ageing pretty badly now (I think the film is actually over ambitious with what it's trying to depict). The bits with 3PO at Geonosis are just dreadful and so unnecessary at what is a pivotal moment of the film and drags it down, with the droid factory scene being a particular offender here.
     
  5. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    C-3PO in the Droid Factory may be THE worst scene in the entire Prequel Trilogy. Hands down it's the most cringeworthy for me and I'm including the Anakin-Padmé romantic scenes in the same movie.
     
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  6. Unimatrix Q

    Unimatrix Q Captain Captain

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    I asked some of the OT characters about the movie. Here are their responses:

    Han Solo: I have a bad feeling about this.

    Luke Skywalker: There is still good in it.

    Admiral Ackbar: It's a crap.

    Obi Wan Kenobi: This wasn't the movie i was looking for.
     
  7. Smellmet

    Smellmet Commodore Commodore

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    I think it is, alongside the puns in the Geonosis arena. I mean I'm all for humour in a SW film but this - this was just embarrassing. It's made worse by the fact that it's clearly a CG 3PO we're looking at. I just don't know what they were thinking with these scenes.

    I don't think the Anakin-Padme romance scenes even get close for cringe factor. They've never bothered me as much as some people.
     
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  8. Set Harth

    Set Harth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    What about the others? There are at least three more.
     
  9. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    Me either.
     
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  10. HaventGotALife

    HaventGotALife Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Vader is to be "the most powerful Jedi ever." He feels like a failure. This is why I like Empire. He goes out into the room when Padme dies. Destroys everything in the room. His mother is gone. Padme is dead, and he thinks he killed her in anger. He grabs for more power because of feeling powerless.

    "You have failed me for the last time, Admiral!"
    "Apology accepted, Captain Needa!"
    "Luke, it is the only way."

    The Empire Strikes Back? Really. The Empire fails miserably. They captured Han. That's about it.

    Yoda defines the force in this movie. Without this movie, the Force is very ill-defined. Yoda is deepened, in the prequels, very scared of Luke.

    He sums up Anakin well, talking to Luke about his brazen behavior with Yoda's teachings.

    "And sacrifice Han and Leia?!"
    "If you honor what they fight for? Yes."

    He's in the same conflict Anakin was in the second movie.

    "I won't fail you. I'm not afraid."
    "You will be. You will be."

    Yoda is scared this will fail. It is not a given that Luke succeeds, and it is not treated as such. Empire is the best of the bunch.
     
  11. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    1. ESB
    2. ANH
    3. ROTJ
    4. ROTS
    5. TFA
    6. TPM
    7. TLJ
    8. AOTC

    I'm leaving Rogue One and Solo out of the rankings just to make things a little simpler and keep the focus on the Skywalker Saga. If I did rank the two standalone movies they'd both hover somewhere near the middle of the list. I like Rogue One more than I do Solo but thoroughly enjoyed both.
     
  12. HaventGotALife

    HaventGotALife Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The introduction of the characters in A New Hope, is long. Luke's conflict, being a dreamer kept on the leash, is given three scenes: the one with 3PO, the one with his Aunt and Uncle, the two moons. Within those scenes are elements (flying with the ship, Mark Hamill's whining, the longing looking at the moons) that feel redundant. Just one example.

    His name alone should be enough. Skywalker. Luke means "light giver." Anakin simply means "warrior (one who wages war)." Rey, by the way, means "King." And, Kylo "Sky." "Ren" is a Confucian principle of altruism, especially towards children. So, either a sarcastic nod to his parents, or Ren is due to turn heel, maybe more altruism towards his kids.

    Jedi has like fifteen good minutes. I cannot begin to explain the disappointment in Clones.



    Anakin was never a good friend...because of Clones. Anakin was always a killer, warrior, hiding his marriage to Padme, defying the Jedi Council's orders and teachings, never a defender of Justice, a great Jedi, a protector. He fought for Padme with lust, and proving his power, not out of gentleness, kindness, compassion, and respect. He was a soldier in the Clone Wars, not a Jedi. He was saving Obi-Wan's life, but never out of love, rather out of power over his master. He was a murderer out of revenge and hatred. He told Padme in the worst possible way, showing her his hatred, sadness, his lust for power, and vowed to stop loved ones from dying.

    What does she do with this information? She married him, confesses her love, for him. She fights to save his life. She never addresses the issue with his mother, the Sand People, get him help.

    The action scenes are terrible. The scenes with Obi-Wan are unwatchable after Dex. It felt like Star Wars got fat on its success. III had all the iconic scenes, some great symbolism and callbacks, however, it tried being epic when it needed to be small. The fight with Obi-Wan and Vader is unrealistic, choking on its money and resources. A large portion of the base floats in lava, good for symbolism, but unrealistic. But, hey, the Force and all. It goes through two interiors, three exterior shots, and the music is perhaps the worst element. It leads emotions, like most of Star Wars, but the scenes needed to be stripped to just showing the brothers fight with the future of the Galaxy in the balance.

    They used to do this. Vader and Luke. Vader and Obi-Wan. It was a war of words as much as a war with sabers. It looks like it had too large of a budget, or George Lucas' original version of these stories was overly ambitious. Hell was invoked, the fiery pit. A classic motif. But, I felt no heat in the battle. Not from the CGI, not from their fight to end each other's way of life. It looked like a dance.
     
  13. Set Harth

    Set Harth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Untrue - it's the same definition given by Ben in ANH.

    Suns, not moons.
     
  14. Pondwater

    Pondwater Vice Admiral Admiral

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    No! Dear sir, c3po with a droid head iz funny.

    Yes dear sir!
     
  15. HaventGotALife

    HaventGotALife Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Is the dark side stronger?
    No, quicker, more seductive.

    Your weapons...you will not need those.

    No! No different!i Only different in your mind!

    Do or do not. There is no try.

    You want the impossible.

    Judge me by my size, do you? As well you should not. For my Ally, is the Force. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter.

    Mind over matter. Commitment to a task. No violence necessary. The Dark side to define the light.
     
  16. Smellmet

    Smellmet Commodore Commodore

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    Can't tell if you're being serious or not.
     
  17. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    And destroyed the Rebel base, and slaughtered many troops. The Empire fails? How so?
    Which is why Luke on Crait is so much better than just another lightsaber duel.
     
  18. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    C-3PO in the Droid Factory was funny in May of 2002. At no point since.

    He was FUNNIER in the Geonosian Arena. That's as far as I'm willing to go. :p
     
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  19. USS Firefly

    USS Firefly Commodore Commodore

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    If he didn't die at the end I would agree.
     
  20. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    As demonstrated in Star Wars again and again death is not the end.