The Phantom Menace at 20: A Defense

Discussion in 'Star Wars' started by cooleddie74, May 19, 2019.

  1. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    After Rian Johnson's creative missteps in TLJ I'm a little more willing to cut George slack for some of his changes to the OT.
     
  2. Soong-type Android

    Soong-type Android Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Which changes? Inserting Hayden Christensen as ghost Anakin Skywalker in ROTJ? Replacing practical effects with CGI? Making Greedo shoot first instead of Han Solo? They all seem unnecessary to me.
     
  3. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Some of them sucked. A few work brilliantly. For the record the Greedo thing and "Jedi Rocks" are garbage and should be retconned out of their respective films but that's not going to happen, so....we make do with the best he gave us and try to tolerate or ignore the rest.

    Like many of us do with Rian's work.
     
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  4. HugeLobes

    HugeLobes Captain Captain

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    I find it a little galling that I can't buy a DVD without having to sit through Jedi Rocks, psycho Anakin, or Kiwi Boba Fett. Poor OT.

    Don't forget flirting Boba Fett and replacing Yub Nub! I know a lot of people dislike it, but a really hate that new song.

    Certainly they were always regarded negatively, but in a slightly different way. Back then Ewoks were the only major misstep in the trilogy, so I think people were a little more forgiving. That's certainly what I get from the older fans I speak to.
     
  5. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    I'd take TLJ over the Greedo shot, the Jabba reinsertion in ANH, all the unnecessary screaming and "No's!!!"

    I mean, TLJ isn't perfect but I am at least not distracted the whole time.
     
  6. HugeLobes

    HugeLobes Captain Captain

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    I thought TLJ was pretty terrible, but at least it tried. Pretty much how I feel about TPM.
     
  7. XCV330

    XCV330 _ Premium Member

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    I loved the aesthetics of TPM. The Republic managed to have a dynamic yet past-its-prime look. Everything was just a bit too opulent.

    I will misquote but I once read a historian say, when a culture moves from Ionic and Doric columns to Corinthian, its almost over. The republic is definitely in its Corinthian column phase.

    The main problem with the movie was the gungans, all of them. Every aspect of the gungans was insulting to the viewers intelligence no matter how old. Watching The Phanton Edit with Jar Jar mostly removed improves the experience greatly, but it doesn't resolve every problem.

    I hate it when i get into fan speculation but if it had been mine to redo, I would have changed the gungans to being a more credible threat, a kind of aqua-fremen. The trade war would have gotten more depth. Qui-Gon should have been displayed as the heroic but slightly broken character I suspect he is: possibly with dependency issues and hanging on to this idea of Anakin as a savior because he needs to believe in one. His inability to see Anakin ISNT the chosen one, is overshadowed by a lethargic and corrupt Jedi Council that doesn't appear to be capable of seeing anything.

    TPM was fun for people to make fun of and they did, but the real crap fest would not occur until Attack of the Clowns. If the middle prequel movie had been better, TPM would be better remembered. Anyway I like it and if I see it on TV i am likely to rewatch it. I can't imagine ever rewatching AOTC or TLJ.
     
  8. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    Pretty much how I feel about ROTS.

    TLJ at least had my attention. I cannot say the same for ROTS. TPM is beautiful to look at and despite missteps but it's definitely not one I want to revisit.
     
  9. HugeLobes

    HugeLobes Captain Captain

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    I think ROTS is by far the worst prequel, but it's also by far the easiest to watch.
     
  10. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, I'm a bit different, and this will sound odd but I find TPM the easiest to rewatch as a movie overall simply because it feels so disconnected for me from the rest of the PT. AOTC is probably the one I enjoy the most but ROTS I cannot get in to.
     
  11. Spot's Meow

    Spot's Meow Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I didn't realize ROTS had such a bad reputation. I thought it was clearly felt by fans to be the best film of the prequel trilogy. But, I can be out of touch with these things. For me personally, ROTS is actually in my top 3 Star Wars films. It's one of the very few that actually provoke an emotional reaction in me. For as much flak as the actors get for the prequels, I thought that Hayden Christensen, Natalie Portman, and Ewan McGregor did a really excellent job in the last few scenes of the film. I can really feel the heartbreak from Portman, feel the anger seething out of Christensen, and feel the utter disappointment from McGregor.
     
  12. USS Firefly

    USS Firefly Commodore Commodore

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    For me ROTS is the best of the PT, easy in my top 5 Star Wars movie list
     
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  13. HugeLobes

    HugeLobes Captain Captain

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    No, ROTS definitely seems to be top dog among the prequels, and plenty of people will tell you it's better than ROTJ. I just think it's very lazy. Takes the easiest route (over-the-top fight scenes) to engage your attention. It's like making something taste better by just dumping sugar over it. I'd probably rather watch it than TPM, but I don't think that makes it a better movie.

    That said, I do think the very brief duel between Anakin and Dooku is the best of the prequel fights.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2019
  14. Set Harth

    Set Harth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Ah, but he was.

    Some believe that to be TPM, despite its reputation.
     
  15. Ithekro

    Ithekro Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The duel between Dooku, Kenobi and Skywalker in ROTS, at least in the novel, is a very entertaining fight.
     
  16. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It's a way better lightsaber fight than any in AOTC.
     
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  17. suarezguy

    suarezguy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Warning sign? Of that not everyone will love every part of each movie? That should be expected and that it comes off as surprising and hard for the fandom just shows how great the first two were (although some fans were initially pretty disappointed by Empire).

    The Ewoks were more than some small indication, like them or not they were an indication that SW wouldn't be just or primarily for adults but intentionally be all-ages including elements directly for children (though C-3PO and R2-D2 already were that anyway though they arguably got less focus in Empire).

    Qui-Gon was, though still existing in some sense, probably was only barely conscious until AotC and not able to communicate until near the end of RotS, maybe a copout (abilities probably shouldn't develop over time after death) but that seems what was conveyed.
     
  18. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It took him a while to learn how the Jedi afterlife and being a Force spirit worked. His consciousness survived death but it probably took him a while to get from screaming Anakin's name when he witnesses him slaughtering the Tusken Raiders and being a disembodied voice on the physical plane of existence to gaining the ability to manifest to Obi-Wan during the Clone Wars and carrying on full conversations with his former Padawan.
     
  19. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    It doesn't. I'm just an outlier and regard it very poorly and it is a film that I would not revisit voluntarily currently.

    TPM, on the other hand, as more of a chance.
     
  20. Ithekro

    Ithekro Vice Admiral Admiral

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    If I recall, Lucas had originally intended to have the final battle against the Empire with the primitive Wookiees defeating the Empire, but by the time he got to that point, it was realized that Wookiees were not that primitive. So instead of copy/paste another tall furry species, he went short and furry for the primitives….thus Ewoks (the tiny fuzzy Vietcong).