THE ORVILLE - S1, E4: "IF THE STARS SHOULD APPEAR"...

[JD]

Voyager and Enterprise most assuredly did not destroy the franchise. Franchise fatigue surely did.

People got bored with that formula and stopped watching, hell even I gave up after the first season of ENT. That boredom and refusal to change is what ended the Berman era, if they had managed to change things up more as they went along we probably would have at least gotten three more season of Enterprise. I know it doesn't sound like it here, but I do really enjoy VGR and ENT, but I am also able recognize the problems that a lot of people had with them. I like that formula so I wasn't to bothered by it in VGR, and ENT, and I like the fact that The Orville is doing it's own version of it.

 

[fireproof78]

- I would still prefer that the show present these professionals as either knowledgeable in their field or willing to learn.

They haven't?

 

[Ometiklan]

If you apply this same sense of rigor then most of TOS also falls apart. The crew lands on planet of the week, gets a quick cliff's note sample of the dysfunctional culture, then tries to show them the way forward (prime directive be damned), usually with a hammy speech by Shatner. Lather, rinse, repeat. Simplistic? Sure. But it was more than enough for the show to be so well lauded and remembered a half-century later.

At some point you have to just accept this kind of stuff as Gulliver's Travels style pocket morality tales. Emphasis on "pocket". It's not necessary for the crew to analyze the situation to anal retentive levels of detail. I mean, come on, they used Rudolph footage as a character epiphany. You're setting the bar way too high.

Maybe you missed my later post where i pretty much said I would take most of The Orville episodes as just fun, light takes on the subject matter. But for an episode with a "heavy" theme, on that is not treated lightly, I just want the "professional" characters (at this point pretty much only the CMO and the XO, though the captain is a maybe) doing their professional best to be...professional.

As for comparing this to TOS, that is assuredly not what I am doing. I am trying to compare The Orville to modern television, and I would hope that it has learned a little from the experience of Trek through the '90s and 2000s, and has made some improvements.

It's accurate. People were bored with Trek. The audience started abandoning it in the first year of DS9.

This is a major reason I can't agree with the concept of "franchise fatigue". So when TNG was at the height of its popularity and fame, a second Trek show is introduced and immediately fatigue sets in? No way. There are numerous other more likely reasons for the decline in Trek - this one I don't buy.

Apparently DS9 was oversaturation from the get go, as that's when the audience decline started.

Exactly why I don't agree with "fatigue".

They haven't?

See above, but the short answer is no. In this particular case where I would expect the most experience and professional character on the ship (the CMO) to either be knowledgeable or willing to learn, she demonstrated neither - in my opinion.

 

[BillJ]

Maybe you missed my later post where i pretty much said I would take most of The Orville episodes as just fun, light takes on the subject matter. But for an episode with a "heavy" theme, on that is not treated lightly, I just want the "professional" characters (at this point pretty much only the CMO and the XO, though the captain is a maybe) doing their professional best to be...professional.

Every series doesn't need a pretentious stick up its rear-end.

 

[Matthew Raymond]

I think the real franchise fatigue was the fact that, during the Voyager era, they were producing two shows and a the TNG movies all at the same time. It divided up the writers and burnt out the producers. If they'd waited to do Voyager until after DS9 finished, at roughly the same time Enterprise aired (and never had Enterprise in the first place), I think things would have worked out better. Voyager would have been produced in HD and the show would benefit from more modern effects. However, it would still be too early for the Great Grimdark that began in 2004, so we'd still potentially have optimistic Trek.

 

[mos6507]

I am trying to compare The Orville to modern television

Orville is written and executed like an 80s show. The only "innovation" is the amount of blue humor inserted that is now considered acceptable for prime-time. Take it or leave it but you can't expect it to be something it was never designed to be.

BTW, was anyone else besides me really impressed with the music for this episode? I don't know how long it's been where I've actually consciously enjoyed music during episodic TV. So much of it (including TNG) was sonic wallpaper. If they keep the music at that level I hope they release a soundtrack album.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

BTW, was anyone else besides me really impressed with the music for this episode? I don't know how long it's been where I've actually consciously enjoyed music during episodic TV. So much of it (including TNG) was sonic wallpaper. If they keep the music at that level I hope they release a soundtrack album.

I'm being reminded of ST:TOS music. When the two ships arrived at Mocla and at some points during Episode 4, I swore I was hearing the music from Amok Time, the battle scenes particularly.

 

[ChasFink]

Have you ever seen any eps of The Starlost? It's on YouTube. Lower budget but decent sci-fi. You'll see what I meant if you take a look.

I watched The Starlost, but was always very disappointed in the abysmal production values. What a show it could have been if there was more money!
Since that series was created by a (pseudonymous) Harlan Ellison, I wonder if he will now consider suing The Orville for screen credit.

BTW, was anyone else besides me really impressed with the music for this episode? I don't know how long it's been where I've actually consciously enjoyed music during episodic TV. So much of it (including TNG) was sonic wallpaper. If they keep the music at that level I hope they release a soundtrack album.

Agreed. Absolutely loved the music. This show's music is much better than most on TV today, and I don't believe they've yet succumbed to the "lets play this song we got payola for so the audience can know how to feel" syndrome. (Someone correct me if wishful thinking has caused partial amnesia.)

Another fun episode, yeah it's heavily borrowing from classic Sci-Fi playbook (and Star Trek in particular), but you can't really see that sort of stuff on TV these days so I find it both refreshing and comfortable at the same time.

Refreshing and comfortable. Yep. I'm pleasantly surprised that many of us are agreeing that use of old familiar tropes can still make for good TV. As I mentioned on another forum, it's a great big bowl of televisual comfort food.

BTW, have the folks arguing over Moclan medical ethics noticed they are doing so in a thread specifically devoted to the subsequent episode?

 

[Mudd]

Well, given that Star Trek is the definition of TV comfort food, it's not surprising if folks are finding some of that in The Orville.

 

[imdbrefugee]

I want to run outside and scream at the top of my lungs how happy I am that a show like this exists. I've waited over fifteen years. Long live Trek. Long live Orville. Loving it. Love. Don't use that word lightly.

 

[theenglish]

The viewership curve went down steadily over the course of time. Quality shows get cancelled all the time, and shit shows continue. I think people just had enough after all that time--hell, weren't there actually two Treks on at the same time for a year or two? Too much of a good thing. But to each their own excuse...

There were two shows on at the same time for SIX years.

 

[theenglish]

No, from way before that. McFarlane is familiar with the antecedents, whether trekkies are or not.

The beats from TOS were all pretty much there. Please share the original source though.

 

[Borgminister]

There were two shows on at the same time for SIX years.

Very interesting... thanks for clarifying that!

 

[fireproof78]

See above, but the short answer is no. In this particular case where I would expect the most experience and professional character on the ship (the CMO) to either be knowledgeable or willing to learn, she demonstrated neither - in my opinion.

I disagree, but that's ok

 

[mos6507]

There were two shows on at the same time for SIX years.

Plus Babylon 5 as competition with DS9 in much the same as we have with Orville vs. Discovery. I preferred B5 to DS9.

 

[Mudd]

There were two shows on at the same time for SIX years.

DS9's ratings fell while TNG's were steady or rising. So, no.

Orphans Of The Sky is available all over the place, and you can probably find "Universe" by Heinlein online. Go for it.

 

[Skipper]

Orville is written and executed like an 80s show. The only "innovation" is the amount of blue humor inserted that is now considered acceptable for prime-time.

I doubt the only difference (even from a technical point of view) between Orville and a 80's show is the "humor".

Just for the example, there are 30 years of cinematography technique between this show and its predecessors. Just the fact that it is shoot in 16:9 means that they have to compose the frame differently.

Are you really saying that the Orville is some kind of time capsule from the 80's, untouched by the passing decades..?

 

[Matthew Raymond]

Plus Babylon 5 as competition with DS9 in much the same as we have with Orville vs. Discovery. I preferred B5 to DS9.

I liked DS9, but comparing anything to Seasons 3 and 4 of Babylon 5 is a really high bar.

 

[Mudd]

If you want to make anything look better, stand it next to B5. If you want to make B5 look like high art, stand it next to Crusade.

 

[Matthew Raymond]

If you want to make anything look better, stand it next to B5.

If you're talking about effects, I would somewhat agree. CGI wasn't up to the task yet, while Star Trek had been compositing physical model footage for nearly a decade, not counting the movies, so they knew how to do it well. Also keep in mind that DS9 had basically double the budget per episode.

If you're talking about screen writing, I'd say that their best episodes of either series could go toe-to-toe with each other.

I didn't hate Crusade, but it was kinda meh.