Glad I'm not the only one.
The Orville is Overrated Nostalgic Trek Fans
- Thread starter Styleset
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I've noticed that many "Discovery" fans do this, because many "Orville" fans were the first to compare the two shows . . . to the detriment of "Discovery".
I'm one episode away from the season 1 finale. I've gone from thinking I'm sold to *definitely* sold. Far from being a Star Trek spoof it's forged it's own path and is thoroughly entertaining. Coming into it as a Trek fan makes it more enjoyable because you can see the inspiration and love for Trek. It ticks a hell of a lot more boxes for me than Discovery.
Glad I spotted this thread. Cheers!
Glad I spotted this thread. Cheers!
I don't get the whole Orville vs. Discovery thing, it's not a zero sum people can like and watch both for their own merits. We should be so lucky as to have so many space shows on again remember when Stargate Universe was cancelled and nothing was on the horizon? Now we have Discovery, Orville, Lost in Space, and the Expanse! (imo those are all great shows for diffrent reasons). It reminds me of the DS9 vs. B5 vs. VOY days, I don't know about anyone else but an evening of first run episodes of Deep Space Nine, Voyager, and Babylon 5, sound like a fantastic evening of TV to me.
I enjoy watching both shows, I feel each has something unique to offer. I enjoy Discovery because I feel it's a fascinating drama with an engaging story and interesting characters, and I love the Orville because it's optimistic and fun. With Discovery, I'm really looking forward to seeing the next episode and see how things turn out, and I want to know what happens to these characters, especially Michael. I don't care for individual people so much on the Orville, but I love seeing how they react to different situations they find themselves in, I think it's just enjoyable to see them bouncing off each other.
I just don't understand some peoples' reactions to these programs .. I mean, not everything is made for everyone. I have many television shows and movies I don't like: I never liked Deep Space Nine, Voyager, or Enterprise. I don't like The Last Jedi, or the Hobbit movies, or the new X-Files season. But I understand those aren't being made for me, and just because I don't like them doesn't mean they're bad or they don't have value, it just means the world doesn't revolve around me and my tastes, but obviously other people find great enjoyment, so I'm happy for you if you do.
I respect if you don't like the Orville or Discovery, you most certainly don't have to, but what do you gain by negativity? Really, no one cares if you think it's bad, you're not going to convince people who do like it, you only look bitter and angry, and also incredibly self-absorbed thinking something's only good if you like it.
For me, I'm just sad both have to be on late on Thursday evenings! Tomorrow I'll be watching Discovery for my Star Trek story, I think the first time I've really enjoyed new Star Trek since TNG, and then the Orville for comfort!
They both had to end up on Thursday. It was always meant to be. It's pure "Highlander" logic. There can only be one!
Jason
I put it in the same category as Voyager and perhaps Enterprise as a series.
Nothing to hate. Not bad at all. Just completely stale, derivative and uninteresting. Each episode is such a non-event to me I barely remember it's even on.
I get so distracted by how much of a rip-off it is, that it's hard to regularly enjoy. It's literally a carbon-copy of Voyager (Which itself was derived from TNG, which was derived from TOS) in terms of tone, pacing, story beats/structure, level of interesting characters, visual style, episodic resets, etc. The plots are often direct borrows from the Trek franchise as well, which is extremely distracting.
And since Voyager is, to this day, the only Star Trek series I have not even seen half of....because I can't care about any of it, Orville just doesn't do anything for me. It just feels like a cheap knock-off (which, admittedly, is what it proudly is) of something I didn't really have any passion for to begin with. And it's very dated in terms of storytelling style and dialogue structure.
Whatever level of interest I have is purely nostalgia and nothing more. Well, that and the humor, which is about a 50/50 hit rate for me.
I think it's nice that it's found an audience of sorts, primarily built of 90s Star Trek fans seeking nostalgia, but I'm also eternally grateful that this isn't the direction the real Star Trek franchise took. I would have been bored to tears and disappointed about 5 episodes in. More of the same isn't what it needed.
Nothing to hate. Not bad at all. Just completely stale, derivative and uninteresting. Each episode is such a non-event to me I barely remember it's even on.
I get so distracted by how much of a rip-off it is, that it's hard to regularly enjoy. It's literally a carbon-copy of Voyager (Which itself was derived from TNG, which was derived from TOS) in terms of tone, pacing, story beats/structure, level of interesting characters, visual style, episodic resets, etc. The plots are often direct borrows from the Trek franchise as well, which is extremely distracting.
And since Voyager is, to this day, the only Star Trek series I have not even seen half of....because I can't care about any of it, Orville just doesn't do anything for me. It just feels like a cheap knock-off (which, admittedly, is what it proudly is) of something I didn't really have any passion for to begin with. And it's very dated in terms of storytelling style and dialogue structure.
Whatever level of interest I have is purely nostalgia and nothing more. Well, that and the humor, which is about a 50/50 hit rate for me.
I think it's nice that it's found an audience of sorts, primarily built of 90s Star Trek fans seeking nostalgia, but I'm also eternally grateful that this isn't the direction the real Star Trek franchise took. I would have been bored to tears and disappointed about 5 episodes in. More of the same isn't what it needed.
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The humor is more like 40/60 for me. I enjoy more the aliens and the characters than the humor. It occasionally lands, and when it does it lands well.
I gave up on The Orville after last season. I couldn't get into it to the point where I had trouble remembering their names. The episodic nature of the show and the sophomoric humor were big detractors for me.
What's more, the fans really did me in. You couldn't open a Discovery thread without people coming in to loudly announce how much it sucked and The Orville was the only real Trek on.
It really is amazing how people will proclaim Discovery is pure crap (an opinion), yet claim that The Orville is better, objectively. Discovery season 1 was a mess for you? Fine. I found it to be exactly what I wanted from a show. I found engaging characters and interesting plots. If you didn't, I get that but disagree.
I really wish The Orville had come and gone in the years between Enterprise and Discovery, it would have been best for both shows to be what they were, without fans feeling the need to put them into direct competition since they started and are airing at the same time. Yes, some people are happy they get both, and that's fine, but, like religion, everyone seems to be loudly shouting theirs is the right one and the other is wrong, which only serves to hurt everyone.
What's more, the fans really did me in. You couldn't open a Discovery thread without people coming in to loudly announce how much it sucked and The Orville was the only real Trek on.
It really is amazing how people will proclaim Discovery is pure crap (an opinion), yet claim that The Orville is better, objectively. Discovery season 1 was a mess for you? Fine. I found it to be exactly what I wanted from a show. I found engaging characters and interesting plots. If you didn't, I get that but disagree.
I really wish The Orville had come and gone in the years between Enterprise and Discovery, it would have been best for both shows to be what they were, without fans feeling the need to put them into direct competition since they started and are airing at the same time. Yes, some people are happy they get both, and that's fine, but, like religion, everyone seems to be loudly shouting theirs is the right one and the other is wrong, which only serves to hurt everyone.
For what it's worth, I share your view that fans should just watch whichever one they like and leave others to their preffered show.
I also agree with your take on The Orville vs Discovery.
But.....is now a good time to admit that while I share and respect your opinion on the two shows, I like them in reverse?
For me, Discovery isn't a bad show, but there's just something about The Orville that makes me like it a little better. And coming from a Star Trek Superfan such as myself you have no idea how hard that is to admit.
I enjoyed the first season of The Orville, but when the second premiered I realized that I had enough of the show. The show is light, fluffy, and it reminds me of TNG. That's awesome, but that's not enough to hook me for more than a single season. I want shows that are more ambitious and push the envelope.
Of course it is, because you aren't putting one down to bolster the other. I have no problems with people preferring The Orville, so long as they realize it's all down to personal taste. I respect your opinion though I don't share it.
Exactly what is there to defend?
If you want to compare/contrast the faults and tropes of both series that's one thing, and something both fan groups do.
The Orville is pretty much TNG redux (not surprising given Seth regrouped most of the Berman Trek era production staff)
ST: D is more Abrams style TOS (although at least with the second season premiere, it really has more of an original TOS vibe - that as an old TOS fan I hope it maintains.)
My point?
TNG and TOS were very different shows. Over the run of TNG and the subsequent spinoffs, many a TOS fan foujnd something to like in the shows and kept watching, along with new fans for whom the TNG paradigm was now 'Star Trek'
However, with ST09 and subsequent films, and now ST: D - TNG fans got to experience what many a TOS fan felt when TNG premiered: "Hey, this is quite different from what I liked..."; so yeah, when those fans get a series that's in the TNG vein (like "The Orville" is) of course they'll gravitate to it and 'defend' it against what they see as 'not their Trek'.
But in the end, sorry, I don't think one show or the others writing is that far above/better than each other - they both have their good points as well as their flaws and tropes.
What I don't understand is the need to denigrate one over the other. Watch what you like and let others watch and enjoy what they like.
Well, what you're saying isn't wrong, but the way you're saying it is inviting people to come at you. It's fairly antagonistic, which may be what you're going for.
Why? For a time I thought SG-1 did Star Trek style better than Star Trek did, as did Farscape. Star Trek has not had the monopoly on science fiction for me since VOY, despite being my introduction to science fiction and a lot of fun books, costuming, prop recreation and toys.
While Star Trek is my first Sci-fi series I can always appreciate when shows engage me in different ways. I don't want Star Trek to tickle my nostalgic feelings. I just want to engage with the characters.
Didn't watch. Wife had surgery.
Because I love Star Trek so much that I used to say that even bad Star Trek is better than anything else on TV. And for the most part, I still feel that way. I don't have the same high regard for VOYAGER and ENTERPRISE as I do for the first three series, but I still like them and would rather watch them over anything else on TV. I don't feel that way about DISCOVERY. I love the whole concept of Star Trek so much that I always just assumed I would have a high regard for any series from that universe but for the first time, I don't. I don't think DISCOVERY is a bad show per se, it's just that for me it's nowhere near as good as what came before. It isn't about nostalgia, it's about quality.
I respect your opinion but I do not share it. DS9 let me down as Star Trek and that pretty much broke the rule for me that bad Star Trek is better than other stuff on TV. If, given the choice, of watching SG-1 or VOY or ENT, I would watch SG-1, or Farscape or any other SF series on at the time. ENT drove me away such that I didn't even watch the series finale, which was a first for me since "All Good Things."
I enjoy Star Trek and think the universe is incredible. But, and this is the point where I can respect you all the more, I do not enjoy bad quality. I'm forever grateful, no matter how bad, that Star Trek continues to be made.
For me, Star Trek left a long time ago and I do not expect me to love it because "Star Trek"- that ship has, uh, gone to warp. I enjoy Discovery because I am engaged with the characters.
The Orville, in contrast, has been very sporadic in terms of my engagement with characters. There are times when Mercer is highly compelling and gets my attention. I think that Bortus and Klyden are well written and do not shy away from a difficult relationship problems. However, not every story does that and so it's hit and miss.
I should apologize as the "nostalgia" comment came across not the way I intended. I absolutely respect a desire for quality. I just don't believe that Discovery is the first time Trek's quality has lapsed, and it will not be the last. I guess my point of disagreement is that it will not get a pass because "Star Trek" and that applies to TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT.
Didn't watch. Was too busy watching Star Trek.
Holy shit! Who knew there was only one hour in any given week?
Well, there are only 168. Trek has 700+ hours. How do you know he wasn’t binging Trek across the decades?Holy shit! Who knew there was only one hour in any given week?
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