The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

[Anticitizen]

What do you mean? I wasn't arguing whether they were properly fixed 100% or not, I was saying these episodes argue for one timeline, not multiples co-existing. If going back in time didn't effect the future, but instead simply branched off to another, 'parallel' timeline, then there's be no point in doing it.

Not all of your examples actually support "one timeline". Here is the best summation of what I mean that I've found (I didn't write it but I find it makes the most sense--it is not the most "natural" way of viewing the time travel stories in Trek but if one examines them closely enough, it is the most logical).

The only example in that list that features a 'divergent' timeline is Yesterday's Enterprise, and that's debatable. As soon as the time travel incident occurred, we saw the current-day events transform immediately (war with the Klingons, etc). It was only due to Guinan's actions that the timeline (which I believe to be the same one) was restored (another example of a character feeling it's important to 'fix' it).

As for Sela being created as a byproduct, well, I figure that's another one of those 'the time traveler has been protected from changes in the timeline due to the nature of time traveling itself' incidents, like FC or City on the Edge of Forever. And Trek '09.

 

[Ovation]

What do you mean? I wasn't arguing whether they were properly fixed 100% or not, I was saying these episodes argue for one timeline, not multiples co-existing. If going back in time didn't effect the future, but instead simply branched off to another, 'parallel' timeline, then there's be no point in doing it.

Not all of your examples actually support "one timeline". Here is the best summation of what I mean that I've found (I didn't write it but I find it makes the most sense--it is not the most "natural" way of viewing the time travel stories in Trek but if one examines them closely enough, it is the most logical).

The only example in that list that features a 'divergent' timeline is Yesterday's Enterprise, and that's debatable. As soon as the time travel incident occurred, we saw the current-day events transform immediately (war with the Klingons, etc). It was only due to Guinan's actions that the timeline (which I believe to be the same one) was restored (another example of a character feeling it's important to 'fix' it).

As for Sela being created as a byproduct, well, I figure that's another one of those 'the time traveler has been protected from changes in the timeline due to the nature of time traveling itself' incidents, like FC or City on the Edge of Forever. And Trek '09.

Yesterday's Enterprise shows us no less than three timelines. We have the timeline where Yar has been killed. We have the war timeline (created by the disappearance of the C at Narendra III). We have the timeline that leads to Sela. Our perspective from the camera suggests one timeline. Logic indicates otherwise. The timeline with a dead Yar CANNOT lead to the one that has Sela. The disappearance of the C creates a divergent timeline (into which it ends up--like what happens with Nero in the new movie). The C's return creates a third timeline--the one with Sela. That one is similar enough to the first one we see in the episode so as to appear the "restored one" but logically, it must be a third divergence. Time travel stories negate the linear mode of time that we think of in colloquial terms--we need to think of time travel stories in terms of results, not in terms of linear chronology from the perspective of the camera, if we want to examine the logical consequences of time travel. Or we can do what most people do--ignore the unsettling implications and simply enjoy the stories. The latter may be more pleasant, but in terms of logic, it is not necessarily (or even usually) correct.

 

[Anticitizen]

Not all of your examples actually support "one timeline". Here is the best summation of what I mean that I've found (I didn't write it but I find it makes the most sense--it is not the most "natural" way of viewing the time travel stories in Trek but if one examines them closely enough, it is the most logical).

The only example in that list that features a 'divergent' timeline is Yesterday's Enterprise, and that's debatable. As soon as the time travel incident occurred, we saw the current-day events transform immediately (war with the Klingons, etc). It was only due to Guinan's actions that the timeline (which I believe to be the same one) was restored (another example of a character feeling it's important to 'fix' it).

As for Sela being created as a byproduct, well, I figure that's another one of those 'the time traveler has been protected from changes in the timeline due to the nature of time traveling itself' incidents, like FC or City on the Edge of Forever. And Trek '09.

Yesterday's Enterprise shows us no less than three timelines. We have the timeline where Yar has been killed. We have the war timeline (created by the disappearance of the C at Narendra III). We have the timeline that leads to Sela. Our perspective from the camera suggests one timeline. Logic indicates otherwise. The timeline with a dead Yar CANNOT lead to the one that has Sela. The disappearance of the C creates a divergent timeline (into which it ends up--like what happens with Nero in the new movie). The C's return creates a third timeline--the one with Sela. That one is similar enough to the first one we see in the episode so as to appear the "restored one" but logically, it must be a third divergence. Time travel stories negate the linear mode of time that we think of in colloquial terms--we need to think of time travel stories in terms of results, not in terms of linear chronology from the perspective of the camera, if we want to examine the logical consequences of time travel. Or we can do what most people do--ignore the unsettling implications and simply enjoy the stories. The latter may be more pleasant, but in terms of logic, it is not necessarily (or even usually) correct.

No, we see three revisions of the same timeline. Otherwise, why would Guinan feel that the timeline she was in was 'wrong'?

 

[Ovation]

The only example in that list that features a 'divergent' timeline is Yesterday's Enterprise, and that's debatable. As soon as the time travel incident occurred, we saw the current-day events transform immediately (war with the Klingons, etc). It was only due to Guinan's actions that the timeline (which I believe to be the same one) was restored (another example of a character feeling it's important to 'fix' it).

As for Sela being created as a byproduct, well, I figure that's another one of those 'the time traveler has been protected from changes in the timeline due to the nature of time traveling itself' incidents, like FC or City on the Edge of Forever. And Trek '09.

Yesterday's Enterprise shows us no less than three timelines. We have the timeline where Yar has been killed. We have the war timeline (created by the disappearance of the C at Narendra III). We have the timeline that leads to Sela. Our perspective from the camera suggests one timeline. Logic indicates otherwise. The timeline with a dead Yar CANNOT lead to the one that has Sela. The disappearance of the C creates a divergent timeline (into which it ends up--like what happens with Nero in the new movie). The C's return creates a third timeline--the one with Sela. That one is similar enough to the first one we see in the episode so as to appear the "restored one" but logically, it must be a third divergence. Time travel stories negate the linear mode of time that we think of in colloquial terms--we need to think of time travel stories in terms of results, not in terms of linear chronology from the perspective of the camera, if we want to examine the logical consequences of time travel. Or we can do what most people do--ignore the unsettling implications and simply enjoy the stories. The latter may be more pleasant, but in terms of logic, it is not necessarily (or even usually) correct.

No, we see three revisions of the same timeline. Otherwise, why would Guinan feel that the timeline she was in was 'wrong'?

I'll let my fellow BBS member's post address this issue.

The relevant quotation from it is:

Guinan had previously met Picard from the alternate TNG timeline twice: Once in San Francisco in 1900 (in "Time's Arrow") and once in the timeless Nexus in 2300 (in "Star Trek Generations"). Both times, it was a Picard from a future where Yar was dead, and the Federation was not at war with the Klingons.

So, 70 years later, when the Enterprise-C appeared during the Klingon War, Guinan realized that she was in the "wrong" timeline, and had to "create" the alternate reality where the Picard she had already met twice would exist. She did this by convincing Yar that she would be better off in the alternate timeline.

That is usually the motivation for time travelers: "This timeline sucks. I'm going to another one where things are better."

However, half the time, the time travelers don't survive long enough to enjoy the new timeline they create (Kim and Chakotay in "Timeless," Lorian in "E2," Admiral Janeway in "Endgame," Lt. Yar in "Yesterday's Enterprise," Jake Sisko in "The Visitor," the Borg Queen in "First Contact," Nero in "Star Trek XI").

Other times, the time travelers succeed in creating a happy, new timeline, so they either stay in that new timeline's past or "return" to its future, which is better off than the one they left (Picard in "First Contact," Picard in "Generations," Captain Sisko in "Past Tense").

Either way, the characters never return to (or live long enough to see) the original, unaltered timeline again, and since the TV cameras follow only the characters who end up in the "good" timelines, we are left with the impression that the original future is "erased" or overwritten, but we have never actually seen any evidence of this.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

You know Anticitizen an argument could be made that Yesterday's Enterprise's War timeline is the proper timeline because the Enterprise-C's trip through time occured because of a phenomenon caused by their battle with the Romulans and that by sending it back they in fact changed history.

 

[Ovation]

You know Anticitizen an argument could be made that Yesterday's Enterprise's War timeline is the proper timeline because the Enterprise-C's trip through time occured because of a phenomenon caused by their battle with the Romulans and that by sending it back they in fact changed history.

The War timeline has a stronger claim to be the "correct" one than either of the other two we see. The C disappears in the original (as it is earlier in time than either the Yar is dead or Sela timelines), which creates the offshoot of the Yar is dead timeline. Then, when Yar goes back with the C, the C's arrival creates the Sela timeline, in which TNG moves forward.

 

[Worf]

I finally got to see it on July 4th and I think it might be the best of all the Star Trek films!!! Yes I know, you are saying what took you so long???? I have no issues with the revised timeline and look forward to the next movie with this crew!!!

 

[trampledamage]

I finally got to see it on July 4th and I think it might be the best of all the Star Trek films!!! Yes I know, you are saying what took you so long???? I have no issues with the revised timeline and look forward to the next movie with this crew!!!

Better late than never

Glad you had a good time!

 

[Blue_Trek]

Went to see it again, liked it better the first time. Not that I would downgrade my rating it's just that when it's all fresh it's better for me anyway.

But again the final scene where Kirk IS captain makes you want the next adventure immediately, and we have to wait 2-3 years.

My friends that saw it with me for the first time, said there must be a sequel coming for this.

 

[startrekrcks]

What did you think of the new actors playing Kirk, Spock, Bones Scotty Uhura

 

[startrekrcks]

I loved the new Trek movie it was so awesome

my favourite scenes
When Kirk got the injection by Bones
Scotty in the water tubes
When Kirk became captain and said Bones Buckle Up
I really didn't like that snow monster thought that was too Star Wars like
The new Enterprise looks beautiful inside and out

what did you like about the latest Trek movie

 

[trampledamage]

I loved the new Trek movie it was so awesome

my favourite scenes
When Kirk got the injection by Bones
Scotty in the water tubes
When Kirk became captain and said Bones Buckle Up
I really didn't like that snow monster thought that was too Star Wars like
The new Enterprise looks beautiful inside and out

what did you like about the latest Trek movie

Kirk getting all the shots from McCoy is hilarious! I love it when Kirk turns round and shouts "Stop it".

Scotty in the water tubes is another good scene - this one along with Scotty's attempt to put Kirk and Spock somewhere quiet on the Narada and they end up surrounded by Romulans - has put some of the danger back into transporting which is good, it all got a bit too convenient in the TV series.


I love all the new actors - I wish there had been time for more of Nero's story but that's really my only complaint.

 

[startrekrcks]

What did you think of the references

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

What did you think of the references

i thot they were kewl.

 

[trampledamage]

Play nicely with the other children, Dennis.

 

[startrekrcks]

I think when Kirk became captain he was really Shatner like don't you think so

 

[startrekrcks]

I didn't see any problem with Kirk becoming captain so soon why do many people have a problem with that he did save his ship and his crew didn't he?

 

[Australis]

I'm curious: you liked the comedy stuff, but what did you think of the opening sequence with the Kelvin, which I think is one of the best parts of the movie?

 

[startrekrcks]

I thought that was very well done I loved the whole film

 

[startrekrcks]

I am 21 and I absolutely love Star Trek and I am so happy with the way JJ Abrams made it fresh and modern for people that are younger and for the fans that were alive when it first came out in 1966 what did you think of this movie