The New USS Discovery....

[fireproof78]

I can see the argument, and I applaud for actually arguing and not shit-posting memes! Thank you, I really appreciate that.

With that being said: If they wanted to have a "big reveal" for the fans, they wouldn't have shown the orthos at Comic Con, or the first trailer where they showed a clearly unfinished design. Or put a single shot of the new design in the most recent trailer.

The "intent" is: They're hiding it because they are not 100% sure what the finished look will be like.

They learned their lessons from last Comic-Con: Not to show clear pictures of an unfinished design, to avoid fan backlash. That's why they - up untill this point - only show small snippets of the ship. And even then, we - the fans - make out the small differences and already identified 4(!) different variants [Comic Con 2016, production teaser (different colour schemes), February teaser (the one with the new, but still forward pointing nacelles and the cut-outs), and Comic Con 2017 (current version, backward pointing nacelles, cut-outs)].

But I believe they finished the desing as soon as we see a full reveal. And I firmly believe further changes will be made to the model until then. The producers just don't know what to change until then.

And this main objective - the need to durther change the design before revealing it to the fans - suggests they are unhappy with the design. Which, IMO, is completely reasonably, since the current design - again IMO - looks shit.

That doesn't mean they think "it looks like shit."

I respect the fact that you have your opinion, but there is a lot of assumptions of the production team's state of mind that just doesn't track. For all we know, CBS ordered the wait for the reveal for the series premiere to generate discussion.

 

[{ Emilia }]

Disagree with @Rahul all you want, but cut this shit.
Making fun of him or calling him a hater will just earn you an infraction for trolling real quickly so drop it. Comments to PM.

 

[Mudd]

The studio has discarded everything from costumes to producers on this show because they didn't like them.

Whereas this ship has changed only in detail since its first introduction.

If they had any doubts about it at all it would be long gone.

You really ought to just move along from this nonsensical losing position.

 

[Rahul]

That doesn't mean they think "it looks like shit."

I respect the fact that you have your opinion, but there is a lot of assumptions of the production team's state of mind that just doesn't track. For all we know, CBS ordered the wait for the reveal for the series premiere to generate discussion.

No. I don't think they think it looks like shit. I think that. And I appologize for articulating so strong, that clearly ruffled some feathers...

The producers only think they (we, a portion of the fans) are unhappy with the design - which we are - and want to further adjust it. And they clearly somewhat 'hide' it (aka not giving a long, clear look) until they have figured out the final touch.

 

[Rahul]

The studio has discarded everything from costumes to producers on this show because they didn't like them.

Whereas this ship has changed only in detail since its first introduction.

If they had any doubts about it at all it would be long gone.

You really ought to just move along from this nonsensical losing position.

"I have no arguments, therefore you should stop discussing with me and I articulate your argument to have 'lost'".

Seriously?
The ship is the only thing which design has changed since they first showed it. Multiple times. That's why we are having a discussion about it. In the corresponding thread about it. What are you doing here if you clearly don't want that discussion to happen?

 

[fireproof78]

Here's where the argument started (emphasis added):

It's not a surprise when they already showed us the final model, on papers, posters and a shot in the trailer. They're hiding the CGI model, because it looks like shit. And they know it looks like shit. And they want to avoid the backlash they had the first time they showed a model that looked like shit. So they kept it hidden. Even though it will be the focal point of the series.

No. I don't think they think it looks like shit. I think that. And I appologize for articulating so strong, that clearly ruffled some feathers...

The producers only think they (we, a portion of the fans) are unhappy with the design - which we are - and want to further adjust it.

So, I appreciate your clarification of your position, because that post I shared is where things went of the rails, as it were.

And again, I think things will always be tweaked right until release, so fan opinion or no, that's usually what I see creative teams doing. Doesn't mean they lack confidence, because I'm constantly tweaking papers until I submit them. I think its just human nature.

The assumption of the production team's mindset, though, is strange to me, as I see no evidence that they lack confidence in their product.

 

[Rahul]

Here's where the argument started (emphasis added):



So, I appreciate your clarification of your position, because that post I shared is where things went of the rails, as it were.

And again, I think things will always be tweaked right until release, so fan opinion or no, that's usually what I see creative teams doing. Doesn't mean they lack confidence, because I'm constantly tweaking papers until I submit them. I think its just human nature.

The assumption of the production team's mindset, though, is strange to me, as I see no evidence that they lack confidence in their product.

I should have articulated that first one better:

"They're hiding the CGI model, because it looks like shit. And they know [correction: WE, a large portion of the fans, think] it looks like shit. And they want to avoid the backlash they had the first time they showed a model that looked like shit. So they kept it hidden. Even though it will be the focal point of the series."

There's still an awful lot of "shit" in it, which I wouldn't say again, and apologize for. But then again it's pretty easy to slip up, when you're the only one making arguments, and everyone else simply answers with "no" or Meme-shitposting.

 

[{ Emilia }]

The producers only think they (we, a portion of the fans) are unhappy with the design - which we are -

Where is your evidence to support this?
I have seen mostly positive reactions to Discovery's portrayal in the latest poster and trailer.
I'm not saying everybody loves it but I've seen plenty of positive comments and the negative ones were mostly a long way off from "I don't like it" or "I hate it."

So who are you representing when you say "we"?
Yourself?
Some fans?

But certainly not "fans".

 

[fireproof78]

I should have articulated that first one better:

"They're hiding the CGI model, because it looks like shit. And they know [correction: WE, a large portion of the fans, think] it looks like shit. And they want to avoid the backlash they had the first time they showed a model that looked like shit. So they kept it hidden. Even though it will be the focal point of the series."

There's still an awful lot of "shit" in it, which I wouldn't say again, and apologize for. But then again it's pretty easy to slip up, when you're the only one making arguments, and everyone else simply answers with "no" or Meme-shitposting.

But, there is no evidence for it. None. No evidence that the production team thinks it looks "like shit" or that they are in damage control mode. It's an assumption, based upon limited evidence.

If I were CBS, I would probably do the same thing and not reveal it at SDCC. Why? Because I want them to use my service in order to see it.

Where is your evidence to support this?
I have seen mostly positive reactions to Discovery's portrayal in the latest poster and trailer.
I'm not saying everybody loves it but I've seen plenty of positive comments and the negative ones were mostly a long way off from "I don't like it" or "I hate it."

So who are you representing when you say "we"?
Yourself?
Some fans?

But certainly not "fans".

Thank you!

 

[Rahul]

Where is your evidence to support this?
I have seen mostly positive reactions to Discovery's portrayal in the latest poster and trailer.
I'm not saying everybody loves it but I've seen plenty of positive comments and the negative ones were mostly a long way off from "I don't like it" or "I hate it."

So who are you representing when you say "we"?
Yourself?
Some fans?

But certainly not "fans".

Certainly not "all" the fans, but surely "a portion" of the fans. A large one.

The reaction to the poster has been mostly flattering (it IS a great poster!). But even here, many mentioned that the ship itself was the weakest part of the poster. The reaction to the newest trailer was also overwhelmingly positive - they showed an awful lot, which is an awful lot more than we ever saw before.

I just pointed out - there is not a clear shot of the Discovery in it, so there isn't a whole lot of negative reaction to something - which isn't there in the first place - as a direct reaction to the second trailer. That is a glaring omission though, that not that many people seemed to have pick up on though.

But just look at the comments on the Comic Con 2016 trailer. Or at the orthos of the ship. Whenever we do HAVE a clear look at the ship, the reaction is miced at best (even on that poster). Not just here, also at the comments from other places, wether Youtube (okay,...), Star Trek-fan sites, or generally entertainment news-sites.

 

[Rahul]

But, there is no evidence for it. None. No evidence that the production team thinks it looks "like shit" or that they are in damage control mode. It's an assumption, based upon limited evidence.

If I were CBS, I would probably do the same thing and not reveal it at SDCC. Why? Because I want them to use my service in order to see it.


Thank you!

The single evidence is: They are NOT showing us. Not a single clear view since the moment they promised us they want to improve it. It's a glaring omission - not showing the main focal point of your future series. They only show us snippets, or artwork. They leave themselves plenty room to further fiddle with it, at a point in time where everyone should be expecting they have a finished design which they are proud of and would show around, to garner interest for a series - set on said ship they aren't focussing on.

 

[{ Emilia }]

We are clearly witnessing a staged reveal strategy here. We hadn't seen Captain Lorca until the last trailer either, do you think they were hiding him for fear of the fans before that?
We hadn't seen Discovery at all during the first trailer, now we've gotten our first glimpse and she was the main focus of the poster, I'm sure we'll see more of her soon.

Staged reveal, not really surprising these days.

 

[fireproof78]

The single evidence is: They are NOT showing us. Not a single clear view since the moment they promised us they want to improve it. It's a glaring omission - not showing the main focal point of your future series. They only show us snippets, or artwork. They leave themselves plenty room to further fiddle with it, at a point in time where everyone should be expecting they have a finished design which they are proud of and would show around, to garner interest for a series - set on said ship they aren't focussing on.

It's information control...period. Not some mass conspiracy that they lack confidence in their product.

We are clearly witnessing a staged reveal strategy here. We hadn't seen Captain Lorca until the last trailer either, do you think they were hiding him for fear of the fans before that?
We hadn't seen Discovery at all during the first trailer, now we've gotten our first glimpse and she was the main focus of the poster, I'm sure we'll see more of her soon.

Staged reveal, not really surprising these days.

Exactly.

 

[Rahul]

We are clearly witnessing a staged reveal strategy here. We hadn't seen Captain Lorca until the last trailer either, do you think they were hiding him for fear of the fans before that?
We hadn't seen Discovery at all during the first trailer, now we've gotten our first glimpse and she was the main focus of the poster, I'm sure we'll see more of her soon.

Staged reveal, not really surprising these days.

Of course it's staged reveal. But they started with the ship! Only to do a 180° and pretend we never saw it? To do a "big" reveal of basically the same design later? No. They were surprised by the negative reaction of the first trailer, promised to "change" it but that it would retain this basic conficguration - and since then they'd been fiddling with it. Changing details, seeking approval from producers... That stuff takes time. And in the meantime, they continued with their marketing, just tried not to focus on the stuff they're still working on. Not so much "conspiracy" as "common sense" and "workflow".

If they knew about the reaction the new uniforms and the klingons got, they would probably like to fix that as well. And I'm fairly certain they'll gonna' do cosmetic changes to them for future episodes, too. But that stuff is finished and filmed. Period. CGI has the advantage you can fiddle with it right until the last second. And that's what they're doing, apparently.

 

[Mudd]

We are clearly witnessing a staged reveal strategy here. We hadn't seen Captain Lorca until the last trailer either, do you think they were hiding him for fear of the fans before that?
We hadn't seen Discovery at all during the first trailer, now we've gotten our first glimpse and she was the main focus of the poster, I'm sure we'll see more of her soon.

Staged reveal, not really surprising these days.

We also are seeing only bits and pieces of the interior, a little at a time.

It must be that the studio just dislikes every single aspect of it?

 

[Rahul]

How many iterations of that did they show us before they decided to tell us they'll change it and then not showed us since then anymore?

 

[{ Emilia }]

I have no doubt they kinda regretted revealing that shitty CGI last year. But I don't think the current reveal strategy is still bothered by that. We've seen Discovery on the poster and in the recent trailer. That just seems perfectly in line with a staged reveal and doesn't indicate that they're still worried.

 

[Longinus]

This discussion is really pointless. There are number of reasons why the producers have decided to not properly reveal the ship yet. And sure 'it looks like shit and they still want to improve it' is one of them, but just one. We simply don't know, and there is not enough information to speculate meaningfully.

 

[fireproof78]

Of course it's staged reveal. But they started with the ship! Only to do a 180° and pretend we never saw it? To do a "big" reveal of basically the same design later? No. They were surprised by the negative reaction of the first trailer, promised to "change" it but that it would retain this basic conficguration - and since then they'd been fiddling with it. Changing details, seeking approval from producers... That stuff takes time. And in the meantime, they continued with their marketing, just tried not to focus on the stuff they're still working on. Not so much "conspiracy" as "common sense" and "workflow".

If they knew about the reaction the new uniforms and the klingons got, they would probably like to fix that as well. And I'm fairly certain they'll gonna' do cosmetic changes to them for future episodes, too. But that stuff is finished and filmed. Period. CGI has the advantage you can fiddle with it right until the last second. And that's what they're doing, apparently.

It really isn't "apparent" at least to me. If they're still working on it, I think that's pretty standard for most productions I have watched the BTS on.

I don't see it as "common sense" because it assumes that because the audience "hated it" that they have to play it close to the vest, like they had not played other items close to the vest. Since they have played several items close to the vest, I don't read that as a lack of confidence. I read it as marketing.

This discussion is really pointless. There are number of reasons why the producers have decided to not properly reveal the ship yet. And sure 'it looks like shit and they still want to improve it' is one of them, but just one. We simply don't know, and there is not enough information to speculate meaningfully.

Well, now you're just being ridiculous

 

[Rahul]

I have no doubt they kinda regretted revealing that shitty CGI last year. But I don't think the current reveal strategy is still bothered by that. We've seen Discovery on the poster and in the recent trailer. That just seems perfectly in line with a staged reveal and doesn't indicate that they're still worried.

Sure they regretted it. But the problem wasn't only the CG - although that certainly didn't much help - but the design itself. And the current design has many of the same problems. It simply doesn't look good. Specifically the underbelly, the nacelles, and to a lesser degree the cut-outs and the surface details. If they would have shown a full body shot again, they'd have faced the same backlash again.

They need to fix their design before they can show it again. And it's clearly not there yet.

This discussion is really pointless. There are number of reasons why the producers have decided to not properly reveal the ship yet. And sure 'it looks like shit and they still want to improve it' is one of them, but just one. We simply don't know, and there is not enough information to speculate meaningfully.

Yes, it's only one theory. But it's the most plausible one yet. The only other one we've heard here - that they want to have a full reveal for the fans later - makes much less sense, considering they already showed us many previous iterations and what is supposed to be the current one.

If they're still working on it, I think that's pretty standard for most productions I have watched the BTS on.

It's pretty much that. They're still working on it (unlike other designs, say the Shenzhou, or the klingon and Federation cgi spacesuits), because they're not content with the current iteration, and don't want to show what is essentially 'work in progress'.

And they really should, because they need to come up with a better version, because the current one is, IMO, still pretty ugly.