If they're going to continue use Kermit as the lead, the need to make him not so mopey. Or get him and Piggy back together. All the characters are kind of droll except for Fozzy, who is just sad.
The Muppets
- Thread starter Kirby
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Saved by the Bell is the only other thing I can think of in the past 40 years.
I think Lois & Clark (which I'm in the process of rewatching) improved in its second season after a whole new writing staff was brought in. It had stronger writing and a better balance of action and character/romance. Although it got much worse when yet another whole new staff was brought in for seasons 3 & 4, so maybe that's a wash.
Star Trek: The Next Generation benefitted from a change of showrunners after its first season, since Roddenberry was in no condition to make good decisions at that point. It benefitted even more when Michael Piller came onboard as showrunner in season 3.
Star Trek: The Next Generation benefitted from a change of showrunners after its first season, since Roddenberry was in no condition to make good decisions at that point. It benefitted even more when Michael Piller came onboard as showrunner in season 3.
Interesting.
I'm also enjoying it but I feel it's not long for this world.
Its eventual cancellation may be the death knell for the Muppets as Disney seems to be at a loss as to how to make them work. This coupled with the fact that kids these days may just not be interested in puppets means we could be seeing their demise (The Muppets, not the kids, unfortunately!)
I'm also enjoying it but I feel it's not long for this world.
Its eventual cancellation may be the death knell for the Muppets as Disney seems to be at a loss as to how to make them work. This coupled with the fact that kids these days may just not be interested in puppets means we could be seeing their demise (The Muppets, not the kids, unfortunately!)
Ah yeah, good call. I didn't watch it, but I know the shift you mean. If Muppets just gets better without significantly altering the approach, I'll be very happy. Most shows that improve over time do so without actually changing the way things are done, they just good at doing it better. (Or sometimes the new people did it better right out of the gate.)
I'll admit, I latched onto the "re-tooling" label, which is unfair as the report said reboot, not retool. Reboot is such a catch-all term now, The Muppets could easily just be set for "better" writing, nothing else too drastic. We'll have to wait and see. I'll be watching either way.
Anybody remember the John Larroquette Show? He played a bus station manager during the overnight shift. It was a rather dark sitcom fully of quirky characters. John was a recovering alcoholic with David Crosby of CSN as his sponser. One of the denizens of the station was a hooker; the snack bar guy was a rather unfriendly young fellow with a bad attitude. It was funny, quirky, and sometimes brilliant.
For season 2 they retooled it to be lighter and more family-friendly. Gave John an upbeat girlfriend, ignored the alcoholic angle, and had everyone socializing after work.
It was horrible. I still mourn the loss.
For season 2 they retooled it to be lighter and more family-friendly. Gave John an upbeat girlfriend, ignored the alcoholic angle, and had everyone socializing after work.
It was horrible. I still mourn the loss.
Yeah, that's been my issue with it too. Just way too negative and narcissistic. Would have had less of an issue with it if they had balanced things out more. Just seemed that whatever good that would come out with something, they'd find some way to be negative.
I think it's good that they're understanding that mistakes were made. I hope the retooling gives Kermit the talk-show rather than Piggy. Mrs Piggy would work better in Kermit's current role, I think.
Piggy has always been a flaky diva - I just can't see her in the "producer's" role which has alwasy been Kermits though probably more in recent iterations than going to be the original Muppet Show were he would introduce the guests and have a little chat.
Miss Piggy has always been "the star", at least in her own head. I don't really see her in a behind the scenes role.
I think the essence of Piggy is that she's a wannabe star. The joke has always been that she sees herself as utterly gorgeous and glamorous, but... she's a pig. The reality of her beauty and her fame doesn't nearly live up to her fantasy image.
Really, that's the defining trait of a lot of the Muppets -- they try so hard, but their skills don't live up to their aspirations. Fozzie is a stand-up comic, but his jokes are terrible. Gonzo fancies himself a great entertainer, but his tastes are so bizarre that nobody gets him. Bunsen Honeydew strives to advance science, but his inventions always blow up in Beaker's face. The Swedish Chef hosts a cooking show, but we can't understand a word he's saying and the food keeps refusing to cooperate. And Piggy is a great star and sex symbol, but only in her own head -- and if Kermit finds her attractive, it's only because he's the kind of guy who can see beneath the surface.
So having Piggy actually be a big, successful star is kind of missing the point. It's like having Maxwell Smart really be a brilliant master spy or having Daffy Duck really be a superhero. (Which, incidentally, is part of why I didn't care for the Duck Dodgers TV series from a few years back -- it made Dodgers/Daffy way too effective.)
Really, that's the defining trait of a lot of the Muppets -- they try so hard, but their skills don't live up to their aspirations. Fozzie is a stand-up comic, but his jokes are terrible. Gonzo fancies himself a great entertainer, but his tastes are so bizarre that nobody gets him. Bunsen Honeydew strives to advance science, but his inventions always blow up in Beaker's face. The Swedish Chef hosts a cooking show, but we can't understand a word he's saying and the food keeps refusing to cooperate. And Piggy is a great star and sex symbol, but only in her own head -- and if Kermit finds her attractive, it's only because he's the kind of guy who can see beneath the surface.
So having Piggy actually be a big, successful star is kind of missing the point. It's like having Maxwell Smart really be a brilliant master spy or having Daffy Duck really be a superhero. (Which, incidentally, is part of why I didn't care for the Duck Dodgers TV series from a few years back -- it made Dodgers/Daffy way too effective.)
I don't understand this sentence. In what way is it unofficial? It's a production of The Muppets Studio and ABC Studios, both of which are owned by Disney, holders of the copyright on the Muppets. So it's entirely official.
Yeah, that's just it. Her personality didn't fit the role very well. They had her hog screen time at the expense of anyone else she was supposed to be interviewing. Dunno, maybe the producer role isn't right for her either, but I'm sure they'll find something more suitable for her. But in the original Muppet Show, it was sort of her role already. She was good at getting her case on people and getting things done.
In the original, she was just a member of the company. Kermit was both the host and the producer.
OPPS.....I meant unoriginal. It just feels like a show that has been done a lot and with Muppets they should have something more.
Ah, I see. Yeah... I don't even watch modern sitcoms, but it just feels to me like an ordinary, by-the-numbers modern sitcom being acted out by the Muppets. They should be subverting and parodying convention, not merely conforming to it.
Hmm, Ok. Don't know why I thought she was producer. Maybe it's because she was more helpful than what we've seen here. It's been too long since I've seen it. Maybe that's what it needs to be again, though, with Kermit as host and producer. He's certainly more of a people person.
Which is all well and good ... I suppose. But that was never my point. I've talking about what has actually happened with CGI ... so far.
As for the direction of the show ... I'm generally okay with it ... except for Piggy. Her personality is incredibly harsh, with little shown, on-screen, that is redemptive. And that negativity - that antagonism - is the primary driver of just about everything in the series thus far. She's just not likable enough. So the show isn't as enjoyable as it might otherwise be. I'm okay with the edginess and mature content ... but it needs a bit more balance. That can start with a simple recalibration of Piggy's personality, to include some traits that are, in addition to her traditional narcissism, also endearing.
Having a conversation is not just about asserting your own point, it's about listening to other people's points. It's not that I didn't understand your point, it's that I had one of my own to express that was about something different.
Yes, clearly. But I was talking about what might have happened if Jim Henson had lived. That's not contradicting or invalidating your point, it's simply broadening the range of the conversation.
Physician, heal thyself.
