Spoilers The Marvels grade and discussion

[Anwar]

Yeah, that about sums it up. I don't know why she was saddled with such terrible writers for decades.

 

[Turtletrekker]

She also was written horribly 50 years ago because she was unlucky enough to be stuck with incompetent, misogynistic writers who didn't know what to do with her. Which is why she spent the 80s, 90s and 2000s as a punching bag character until she got upgraded to Captain Marvel around 2012...and certain folks were mad because they preferred her as the punching bag.

That's a big thing, Carol finally being written with some respect after decades of getting none.

Chris Claremont is incompetent and misogynistic?

 

[Anwar]

Chris Claremont is incompetent and misogynistic?

He certainly wasn't good to Carol, no. He undid that awful "She gets brainwashed into falling in love with her rapist" story but everything else he did with her was pretty bad.

 

[Guy Gardener]

He certainly wasn't good to Carol, no. He undid that awful "She gets brainwashed into falling in love with her rapist" story but everything else he did with her was pretty bad.

Uncanny 230-something, Wolverine and Rogue are depowered and trapped behind enemy lines in the mutant enslaving nation Genosha... Rogue snapped and a back up of Carol's personality from when she sucked the real Carol dry of personality and superpowers, took up the slack, so fake Carol and logan use 1970s coldwar spy craft to breach a fascist dictators fortress and get their powers back before Logan dies of kidney disease from adamantium poisioning.

Moving on from there It was Jekyll and Hyde where Rogue relents and timeshares her body with fake Carol.

Fine stuff.

 

[TerryTrek]

Not even remotely.

It's a historic failure. From a film that did 1.131B WW, to a film that won't even cross 100M domestic at this pace.

I don't think the film industry has seen anything like this before, so it's fascinating. There will be a lot of post-mortem analysis in the industry about everything they did wrong here.

 

[theenglish]

That said, I can tell you the original comic version of BP (in many of his early appearances) did rub some black American readers the wrong way, as they felt he was written as the half stoic, half deferential African stereotype used in endless novels and movies up that period. It took some time before BP was given a somewhat less offensive personality in late 60s / early 70s appearances (some of that can attributed to Roy Thomas's stories) taking cues from real life (think of the political / self-identity landscape for black people in that time).

My first experience with the Black Panther was in the Fantastic Four issue where Johnny and Ben travel to South Africa to rescue him. That was when he was going by the name Black Leopard I believe.

 

[Anwar]

It's a historic failure. From a film that did 1.131B WW, to a film that won't even cross 100M domestic at this pace.

I don't think the film industry has seen anything like this before, so it's fascinating. There will be a lot of post-mortem analysis in the industry about everything they did wrong here.

Er, wasn't this what happened with Wonder Woman and WW1984 as well?

Honestly, the way this is getting singled out for abuse is really getting silly. Especially when you don't take into account how the Movie Business Landscape changed between 2019 and now.

 

[TerryTrek]

Er, wasn't this what happened with Wonder Woman and WW1984 as well?

Honestly, the way this is getting singled out for abuse is really getting silly. Especially when you don't take into account how the Movie Business Landscape changed between 2019 and now.

Well no. WW84 came out in the midst of the Virus restrictions (Dec 2020), day and date release on HBOMax.

The movie business landscape is essentially back to a stable place now. Especially after Mario, Barbie, Oppenheimer, Guardians, etc this year.

The fault of "The Marvels" is in the film itself, and it's lack of appeal to mainstream movie goers.

 

[The Nightmare Doctor]

It's a historic failure. From a film that did 1.131B WW, to a film that won't even cross 100M domestic at this pace.

I don't think the film industry has seen anything like this before, so it's fascinating. There will be a lot of post-mortem analysis in the industry about everything they did wrong here.

No, it really isn't. And certainly not more interesting than the film itself.

Speaking of the film, can we actually talk about the film itself instead of all of these inane sidebars about its box office whatevers?

 

[Commander Troi]

I hope we'll eventually get some BTS on the body switching choreography.

 

[Guy Gardener]

It's a historic failure. From a film that did 1.131B WW, to a film that won't even cross 100M domestic at this pace.

I don't think the film industry has seen anything like this before, so it's fascinating. There will be a lot of post-mortem analysis in the industry about everything they did wrong here.

The only reason to connect Wonder Woman to Captain Marvel is sexism.

 

[Aragorn]

Speaking of the film, can we actually talk about the film itself instead of all of these inane sidebars about its box office whatevers?

I saw someone refer to the celebration of box office failure the "incel Super Bowl." They didn't get it with Barbie, so they double downed on The Marvels, now they're going after Madame Web.

 

[Anwar]

Especially after Mario, Barbie, Oppenheimer, Guardians, etc this year.

Guardians didn't do as well as expected/hoped, got proper marketing and promotions. Barbie/Oppenheimer/Mario weren't available on a Streaming service super soon and also got way better promotions and marketing. Barbieheimer was all over the media.

The fault of "The Marvels" is in the film itself, and it's lack of appeal to mainstream movie goers.

Is that why Blade Runner 2049 failed?

 

[The Realist]

I saw someone refer to the celebration of box office failure the "incel Super Bowl." They didn't get it with Barbie, so they double downed on The Marvels, now they're going after Madame Web.

Incel Super Bowl. I like that.

I ran across the trailer for Madame Web on YouTube yesterday, and watched it because Dakota Johnson. I'm not an MCU guy, but I'd sooner see MW or The Marvels than most of their stuff.

ETA: Oh, wait, apparently Madame Web isn't MCU. Like I care.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Easily the most fun I've had with any MCU project since Shang-Chi.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Guardians didn't do as well as expected/hoped, got proper marketing and promotions. Barbie/Oppenheimer/Mario weren't available on a Streaming service super soon and also got way better promotions and marketing. Barbieheimer was all over the media.



Is that why Blade Runner 2049 failed?

And Indiana Jones?

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

The movie business landscape is essentially back to a stable place now. Especially after Mario, Barbie, Oppenheimer, Guardians, etc this year.

# of movies to surpass $1 billion in 2023: 2
# of movies to surpass $1 billion in 2019: 9

Yeah, we're nowhere near back to pre-pandemic levels. Not even a little bit.
ETA: And people's streaming habits aren't going to help things get back to where they were.

 

[Anwar]

And Indiana Jones?

Indy just isn't a big sell to modern audiences, his heyday was in the 80s and 90s. It doesn't help that it was just too hard to take Ford seriously jumping around like that when we KNOW he's in his 80s.

 

[marillion]

# of movies to surpass $1 billion in 2023: 2
# of movies to surpass $1 billion in 2019: 9

Yeah, we're nowhere near back to pre-pandemic levels. Not even a little bit.
ETA: And people's streaming habits aren't going to help things get back to where they were.

The hosts of a podcast I was listening to were remarking on this. These days you can get a 98 inch TV for under $5,000. The pandemic taught people they can have a fun night out at home. One of the hosts went to see a movie last weekend in the DC area and said the place was empty of both viewers and staff. He only saw a couple of staffers.

I do also think that we're going through a bit of superhero fatigue. Yes, you can say that the movies themselves fall short on the quality of those that came before, but there's just so much content out there, it's overwhelming.

 

[Anson Mount Seleya]