The Last Jedi - Actually Widely Hated?

[fireproof78]

But what about Rogue One?

Oh, and that other movie...the one about some alleged scoundrel...

Rogue One is more enjoyable for me than ROTS, largely because of the Rebel Forces, but I have more fun with AOTC.

Solo is incredibly fun and sits in the top 6 for me of Star Wars films.

Snoke was built up to be the big bad of this trilogy with Force powers beyond even the likes of Palpatine,

He was? I must have missed the part where everyone said he was as powerful as Palpatine

Then there was the end Vader scene. No thank you. In my opinion, it really just doesn’t jibe with the start of ANH. Like, at all. It seemed to be there just for that “kewl” moment.

Yeah, the last act of RO is not enjoyable for me, aside from the space battle. That Vader scene is just absolutely awful to me, and defines fanwank for me that takes me out of the movie.

 

[Campe]

Again, I can see how people don't care for that scene. I love it though. Maybe he moves a little too quickly from what you see in his duel with Kenobi in ANH but I still think it's a gripping, thrilling scene.

I couldnt care less about Vader’s speed in the scene. It just felt very tacked on and as I understand was added late in the day.

I’ve always liked the idea better of the Tantive IV at the edge of the battle completely out of range from the battle. Then, actually giving Bodhi something to do (felt his character was completely pointless in the climax of the film) actually getting off of the planet aboard the ship with some of the rebels (not our main ones) and fighting his way through the imperials trying to get through signal jamming. The ship gets boarded, the scene continues more or less with Vader mowing down the Rebels and then Bodhi actually, ya know, beaming the Death Star plans to Leia’s ship. Just as he does so, Bodhi is run through by a red blade. Not only does it solve the continuity issue that R1 creates, it also makes the act emotional, connecting the Rogues to the bigger story in a better way and makes the transition a little more seamless. As it stands now, yeah, you can say that Leia and Vader are just lying to one another at the beginning of ANH but that seems flimsy to me.

It also takes away Vader’s “I’ll get you next time, Rebels! Next time!!!” moment that R1 leaves.

 

[fireproof78]

It also takes away Vader’s “I’ll get you next time, Rebels! Next time!!!” moment that R1 leaves.

That scene also undermines Leia's whole protests to Vader at the beginning of ANH. She can't protest his actions when she was just at a battle. It's stupid.

 

[BillJ]

I don't think you've explained this sufficiently enough...

Who the fuck made you the arbiter of what is sufficient?

I like The Last Jedi, and I have the same issues with Canto Bright and the chase scenes. There's no tension within them, they add nothing to the movie.

It is like they had a great Luke/Rey/Ren section of the movie, yet didn't have any good ideas of what to do with the second hour of runtime they had to fill.

 

[Spot261]

The problem with this train of thought is that it buys into the marketing concept of the saga being a whole. I think each movie needs to be able to stand on its own - they do charge full price for admission to each one after all!

That's a hell of a recipe for dumbing things down though.

 

[Smellmet]

I don't think you've explained this sufficiently enough, and would like more context in order to better understand your issues with that part of the film.

Why? What did it add to the story? And if they could escape there undetected, why couldn't they evacuate more people in this way? Then there's the lame part when they just happened to get banged up in the same cell as DJ. The whole scene could have easily been cut or re-written and tightened the film up a lot.

This is an issue of perception, not content.

Maybe my perception of how I thought Snoke was going to be the 'Emperor' of this trilogy yes, but I still take issue with the content of the scene. This dude could read minds and didn't sense what Kylo was doing.

I'm not sure you understood the point of that whole thing.

Hux didn't want to simply destroy the Resistance; he wanted to lord the First Order's superiority over them and destroy them slowly and in humiliating fashion.

That's just bad writing of the character and the scene.

 

[DigificWriter]

Why? What did it add to the story? And if they could escape there undetected, why couldn't they evacuate more people in this way? Then there's the lame part when they just happened to get banged up in the same cell as DJ. The whole scene could have easily been cut or re-written and tightened the film up a lot.

Here's what the point of the Canto Bight sequences were (one corroborated, not that it really matters, by others):
1) Provide character development for Finn by allowing him to gain a different perspective on the state of the galaxy
2) Provide, in a roundabout way, character development for Poe by having the mission ultimately fail because of its actual unimportance to what was happening in the "bigger picture" that he couldn't see or wasn't seeing
3) Provide thematic setup for Luke ultimately rejoining the "conflict" and Rey's eventual emergence as the "Last Jedi"

Maybe my perception of how I thought Snoke was going to be the 'Emperor' of this trilogy yes, but I still take issue with the content of the scene. This dude could read minds and didn't sense what Kylo was doing.

Snoke saw what was going to happen (as he himself says), but his perception of what he saw was flawed.

That's just bad writing of the character and the scene.

I disagree.

 

[Smellmet]

He was? I must have missed the part where everyone said he was as powerful as Palpatine

I don't remember old Palps being able to bridge the minds of two people. Granted he never had to in the previous films but the films present this guy as the dark side big bad, I think it's pretty safe to make the assumption he's just as powerful.

 

[Spot261]

Why? What did it add to the story? And if they could escape there undetected, why couldn't they evacuate more people in this way? Then there's the lame part when they just happened to get banged up in the same cell as DJ. The whole scene could have easily been cut or re-written and tightened the film up a lot.

Convenient synchronicity is a staple of story telling, always has been.

Maybe my perception of how I thought Snoke was going to be the 'Emperor' of this trilogy yes, but I still take issue with the content of the scene. This dude could read minds and didn't sense what Kylo was doing.

Much as Palpatine didn't see what Vader was doing?

That's just bad writing of the character and the scene.

How so?

 

[DigificWriter]

I don't remember old Palps being able to bridge the minds of two people.

That doesn't make Snoke more powerful.

Granted he never had to in the previous films but the films present this guy as the dark side big bad, I think it's pretty safe to make the assumption he's just as powerful.

All of this is perception-based, and not a flaw of the contents of TLJ as presented.

 

[HugeLobes]

When you're a fan of a franchise, there is always going to be something at the bottom of the pile. Just the law of averages at work.

I never get this ‘fan of a franchise’ thing. I know characters cross over between them, but I can’t help seeing each trilogy and stand alone as something apart from the rest.

I doubt people would be getting as defensive about these movies if they didn’t have ‘Star Wars’ before the title. Strange since TLJ is probably the only movie that would have been received better if it wasn’t part of the franchise.

 

[LJones41]

I suspect that "The Last Jedi" isn't as widely hated as many seemed to think.

 

[fireproof78]

I don't remember old Palps being able to bridge the minds of two people. Granted he never had to in the previous films but the films present this guy as the dark side big bad, I think it's pretty safe to make the assumption he's just as powerful.

Abilities do not automatically mean "more powerful."

I think there is a lot of perception of what was expected of Snoke, rather than what he actually was presented as, which was a Dark Side Force user who corrupted Ben Solo. Period. He served his role in the story and we, the audience, had as much information about him as we did about the Emperor in the OT.

I suspect that "The Last Jedi" isn't as widely hated as many seemed to think.

I suspect that you're right.

 

[BillJ]

I never get this ‘fan of a franchise’ thing. I know characters cross over between them, but I can’t help seeing each trilogy and stand alone as something apart from the rest.

Why exactly do you think Disney did Star Wars: The Last Jedi instead of a generic The Last Knight? Because they are trading on the goodwill created by previous installments, and fans are buying tickets based on familiarity.

So it is natural to compare installments, especially if you've been a long time fan of a franchise.

 

[BillJ]

I suspect that "The Last Jedi" isn't as widely hated as many seemed to think.

Most folks that truly hate something, tend to move on. Unless there is some kind of OCD involved. If you're here complaining that you hate something, there is usually something to the product that keeps drawing you into discussions.

Just like me and Discovery. I don't hate it, I'm just bored by it and disappointed by some of the decisions made. But I'm drawn to it because I've been watching people in space pajamas with arrowhead badges for 45 years now.

 

[HugeLobes]

Why exactly do you think Disney did Star Wars: The Last Jedi instead of a generic The Last Knight? Because they are trading on the goodwill created by previous installments, and fans are buying tickets based on familiarity.

Yes, obviously. Not disputing that.

But I'm drawn to it because I've been watching people in space pajamas with arrowhead badges for 45 years now.

I just don't get this. I liked TNG and loved DS9, but I don't find myself drawn to Discovery just because I've watched previous Trek shows. I watched the first two, thought they were just okay, and gave up, just as I would if it was a normal show. Same with Star Wars. I absolutely love the OT, but that doesn't mean I care about the new movies more than I'd care about any other new movie.

 

[BillJ]

I just don't get this.

We're just different folks I guess.

 

[Campe]

Imagine that. People having differing opinions.

 

[fireproof78]

Imagine that. People having differing opinions.

I am shocked, shocked I say.

 

[Ithekro]

Imagine that. People having differing opinions.

I am sure that's not allowed on the Internet by some sort of regulation.