The Last Jedi - Actually Widely Hated?

Discussion in 'Star Wars' started by crookeddy, Jan 9, 2019.

  1. crookeddy

    crookeddy Commodore Commodore

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    When I first saw the Last Jedi, I loved the movie, and so did the critics I read prior to seeing the movie - it had an RT score in the 90s. A few days go by, and I keep hearing about the massive discrepancy between critic scores and audience scores. There were a lot of explanations at the time, such as system gaming, and right-wing organized review bombing. However as the months go by, the hate for the movie doesn't seem to be decreasing. Every message board, even ones unrelated to Star Wars seem to end up with a "but TLJ sucked!!!!" posts, almost like a Godwin Law - TLJ is the new Hitler.

    Do you guys think that TLJ was actually a widely despised film that will go down in history as a reviled movie like the prequels did, or do you still think its a particular subset of society that hates it?
     
  2. Q2UnME

    Q2UnME Commodore Commodore

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    I believe it's the latter. Everyone I know whom had saw the movie enjoyed it. I even dragged Mrs.Q2 (not a Sci-Fi/Fantasy Fan) to see it with me and she enjoyed it. A very vocal and angry sub-set of fandom is driving the hate.
     
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  3. Mach5

    Mach5 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The prequels did not go down in history as a reviled series of movies. They have many detractors among the fanbase, but their infamy has continually been grossly overstated (mostly by the said detractors).

    Same story with TLJ. The people who hate it are a loud minority. Not a small minority by any means, but still.
     
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  4. Kirk Prime

    Kirk Prime Captain Captain

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    I think TLJ really IS that despised. In fact, I watched a youtube video the other day where the argument that Last Jedi was so bad, it actually made TFA worse as well. And I see the point--TFA was a decent movie that while suffering from lack of originality and being a remake of Episode IV, it set up some interesting directions and mysteries, and almost all of them were ruined by TLJ. Rey's parents? Nobodies. Snoke? Bigger let down than Boba Fett.

    All that, and they killed Luke Skywalker. Stupidly.

    It's like they watched the horrible treatment of Kirk in Generations, and said, "hold my beer."

    TLJ actually made people wonder if this trilogy is worse than the prequels.

    At least Episode III wasn't that bad.

    The story isn't over, and the hope is that Episode IX undoes the damage of TLJ. That can't happen unless they realize they made a turd of a movie and listen. But I don't think it's possible.

    One thing is certain is that even in the prequels, you never heard so many people not care about the next SW movie.
     
  5. Jedi_Master

    Jedi_Master Admiral Admiral

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    The Last Jedi is hated by a very small subset of fans, who sadly seem to love making YouTube videos to "prove" their arguments.
     
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  6. Campe98

    Campe98 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Is it hated? Sure.

    But I know of exactly ONE individual in real life who didn’t like it and many who either loved it or just said it was okay.

    But utilizing YouTube videos to prove a point? Talk about a niche of a niche of a niche.
     
  7. Professor Zoom

    Professor Zoom Admiral Admiral

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    Angry subset. I think, actually, the movie's reputation will grow.

    Most people aren't angry YouTubers with time on their hands to post videos that need attention grabbing clickbait titles with frothing of the mouth presentations in order to drive traffic in order to make it rain coin. So, I take YouTube videos decrying the End of Star Wars not particularly seriously?

    Is it a perfect movie? No. Finn's story isn't very clear. He wants to find Rey so he goes off and discovers he wants to be a hero? It's fuzzy. But, then, none of the movies are perfect. Empire comes the closest.
     
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  8. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I think how TLJ will ultimately be remembered may depend a lot on what occurs in the next film.

    The closest analogue I can think of is "Two Towers", which has its share of greatness but also spends a lot of time just setting things up for what's to come.
     
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  9. Mach5

    Mach5 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Nah, TFA did it all on its own.

    Honestly, nearly half of my RL friends hated it.
     
  10. HugeLobes

    HugeLobes Captain Captain

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    People tend to focus on the extremes. I know one person who really enjoyed it. He's a huge SW fan who'd see it multiple times regardless of quality. But most viewers are just ordinary people who liked a few previous films. Those would make up 95% of the friends/family I know who saw the movie, and they were just kinda dimly disappointed. Some thought it was okay, but even they didn't feel any particular excitement for the next one.

    It's worth recognizing that SW fans are only ever a small segment of the people seeing SW movies. Yes, there's an obnoxious angry subset, but they don't really matter. Unfortunately, neither do the fans who loved the movie. What matters is Joe Public, and I think in general they just weren't too impressed by TLJ.

    So:

    No. I think it's a movie most people just don't care about. The grand majority of viewers seem to be getting over the idea that SW movies are something special.
     
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  11. Campe98

    Campe98 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    But over half of them at least enjoyed it, I’m assuming? So even in your sample set, the majority liked it.

    I’m not saying people don’t dislike the film. There may even be a number of people who feel that way and their concerns could very well be valid. I’m just saying that it’s still, likely, a minority. A film doesn’t make $1.3 billion globally if the majority of people who saw it disliked it. The word would have gotten out and people wouldn’t have shown up. They did.
     
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  12. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    No, I do not. Even among niche SW fans that I know, TLJ is mixed reviews more often then not. I even see a lot of revisiting of TLJ and increased appreciation.
    Agreed. Many don't realize that part of EBS's charm comes from the furthering of the story in ROTJ, including more exposition regarding Anakin and the Emperor, and Luke's sister. I think Episode IX will have a huge impact on how TLJ is regarded in the future.
     
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  13. Pondwater

    Pondwater Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I saw it at a thrift store on dollar day. And I wouldn’t buy it.
     
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  14. Kor

    Kor Admiral Admiral

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    Oh joy, another thread about hating TLJ. :rolleyes:

    I don't care whether the masses or the professional critics liked the movie or not. I myself enjoyed it, and that's the only thing that matters to me as an individual viewer with a mind of my own. That being said, I did find it rather gratifying that The Atlantic gave good feedback on The Last Jedi.

    The only thing I didn't really enjoy in TLJ was the silly Disney/Marvel-esque humor. I felt that it was drawn out more than necessary.

    I like the messy story structure with its meandering side stories and dead ends. We need more non-traditional narrative structure in fiction. Life is not some neatly packaged three-act play. Life is replete with frustrating dead ends, disappointments, and pointless, drawn-out pursuits that go nowhere. Our storytelling should reflect this aspect of the human condition.

    I'm glad that that the hopes and expectations that were set up in TFA were turned topsy-turvy by TLJ. I want fiction to subvert and challenge my expectations, not play into them in predictable fashion.

    Of course, I did not want to see Luke die, as he has been a hero of mine since childhood. But with the story continuing to move forward, it is unavoidable at some point. I thought that the way it happened was quite dignified and befitting a Jedi, surrendering his existence in this mundane plane to the eternal Force in a masterful display of unfathomable power which expanded upon what we previously thought was possible with The Force (incidentally, it also fit in very well with what we've seen from Lucas's "Clone Wars" animated series).

    YMMV. :shrug:

    Kor
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
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  15. HugeLobes

    HugeLobes Captain Captain

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    Considering the clout SW still had before this movie came out and the immense amount of money Disney put into marketing it, it was always going to win big at the box office. Maybe it owed its box office performance more to TFA than its own quality? The real test will be episode 9, and we've already got a taste of how things might go down with Solo.

    If half the audience hated it, that doesn't mean the other half loved or even liked it. There are shades of grey. You can't just think it terms of good and bad. The other half could have just thought it was okay.

    As for the actual fans, I'd say TLJ was pretty despised. Whenever I looked under a YouTube video from the originals or even the prequels, people are bashing TLJ and getting thousands of likes. I think the prequels changed the fanbase a lot, and TLJ is the exact opposite of what people liked (for better or worse) about the prequels.
     
  16. Spot261

    Spot261 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Amazingly, against all the odds, a lot of people hated the OT, it's just they tend not to still be talking about it on forums decades later.

    A fifty per cent rate wouldn't be that dreadful.
     
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  17. crookeddy

    crookeddy Commodore Commodore

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    But why...

    The prequels are 3 movies... How can one movie be compared to three?

    Wasn't that bad until "she died of a broken heart" and "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO", tho of the most groan inducing moments in the entire saga :)

    Why would anyone want this? Do you want to hear a story that surprises you and takes you to unexpected places, or do you want to see a fanfiction? The last thing we need is for angry youtube videos to drive storytelling. Seeing the movie you think you want to see is... boring.

    Just wait for the first trailer to drop. Nobody markets like Disney/Lucasfilm.
     
  18. Kor

    Kor Admiral Admiral

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    I knew a girl in school who had never seen any of the Star Wars movies. She went to see ANH when they did the twentieth anniversary theatrical showings. The next day at school, she dismissively and angrily described the movie as "soooooo stupid." I was shocked and appalled.

    Kor
     
  19. HugeLobes

    HugeLobes Captain Captain

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    What's happening with new SW movies is the exact opposite of what happened with the OT, especially ANH. Nobody expected it to be popular, and yet it became a gigantic hit that in many ways hasn't been equalled. Obviously not a movie, but I think the only thing to equal the OT's unexpected success has been the Harry Potter books.

    Now you have freakin' Disney pouring millions of dollars into simply promoting these movies. Instead of an unknown franchise that becomes immensely successful on its own merit, SW is at least partly coasting on reputation.

    Yes, some people don't like ANH, but that movie was a cultural sensation all on its own. It was a self-made movie. The latest ones have family money behind them.
     
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  20. crookeddy

    crookeddy Commodore Commodore

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    I think we either have a different definition of "fans" or you are grossly underestimating the number of people who LOVE Star Wars. When I say "fans", I don't mean people who take the time to make 80 minute YouTube videos, or even to watch said 80 minute videos. I mean people who just enjoy Star Wars movies and get excited whenever a new one is coming out. That number of people is huge. TFA didn't become the highest grossing movie (not adjusted for inflation) in the United States because it's one of the best sci-fi movies in history - it's because it's Star Wars.