The Last Jedi - Actually Widely Hated?

[Campe]

I am shocked, shocked I say.

It’s the thing that gets me ultimately about the “Everyone thinks X sucks.” No. They don’t. People might. But we all have differing opinions and different levels of like or dislike. But the idea that we all feel the same way about these things? Yeah right. We’re not a hive mind.

I am sure that's not allowed on the Internet by some sort of regulation.

Then we are all going to go to jail. Or be fined. Or something.

 

[BillJ]

We’re not a hive mind.

Resistance is futile.

 

[Campe]

Resistance is futile.

Borg reference. 10 points to Hufflepuff.

 

[Ithekro]

We’re not a hive mind.

Crowd: "We're not a hive mind."

Random Guy: "I am!"

Crowd: "Hush"

 

[Awesome Possum]

People "hated" Empire when it came out, I suspect that Last Jedi will get re-evaluated in a few years and end up being considered the best of the Disney era films if not the best of the entire franchise because where it took it.

 

[HugeLobes]

In the fullness of time, I think it might solve world hunger.

Honestly guys, it could be that people didn’t like this movie because it wasn’t a great movie.

 

[fireproof78]

Honestly guys, it could be that people didn’t like this movie because it wasn’t a great movie.

"Not liking it" is fine. "Hating it" and thinking the vast majority of people hate it for the same reasons as everyone else is the point of contention. I truly believe that TLJ hatred is overblown, much like the PT hatred is probably overblown.

Also, talking about YT and the TLJ hate, stumbled upon this video that demonstrates some interesting through lines within the film:

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[HugeLobes]

"Not liking it" is fine. .

I'm glad it's okay for people not to like this movie, but let's look at some of the reasons people have suggested on this thread for why they didn't. Just off the top of my head:

- People are getting misled by angry people making YouTube videos
- People on YouTube are only saying bad things because being negative drives more traffic.
- Fans love having things to nitpick these days.
- People are just parroting back negative opinions instead of thinking about the movie themselves.
- People are blinded by nostalgia/upset because they dislike anything new.
- TLJ was too challenging in its 'subversion of expectations', and people weren't expecting that.
- People need the final movie to properly judge the second one.

My problem here is that most of these points place the blame for not liking the movie on the people who didn't like the movie. There's a little too much 'oh, you just didn't get it' going on. And when someone points out all the dislike it gets across parts of the internet outside TrekBBS? 'Oh dear, you don't really believe those places are reliable, do you?'

Yes, maybe there's a little truth to the points listed above, but they can't completely blot out the idea that lots of people don't like this movie because it isn't a great movie.

 

[STEPhon IT]

People "hated" Empire when it came out, I suspect that Last Jedi will get re-evaluated in a few years and end up being considered the best of the Disney era films if not the best of the entire franchise because where it took it.

In order for that to happen Disney would have to summon an "Order 66" on Star Wars fans; there's too many issues with the movie, especially when locked into an SJW era, for it to be considered the best of the Disney era films in a hypothetical years to come. This piece of sh*t of a movie is not fine wine. This just shows you haven't watched much Disney films from this era; Disney has produced a lot of quality films than a popcorn serial plant like The Last Jedi. Like the movie all you want, but lets keep the hokey, crystal ball predictions of a movie which was never designed for any substance, but to muddy the aura of the OT heroes just to make their new characters look better.

 

[suarezguy]

Do you guys think that TLJ was actually a widely despised film that will go down in history as a reviled movie like the prequels did, or do you still think its a particular subset of society that hates it?

I think it is fairly hard to tell one way or the other-a movie can make a lot of money with a lot of people liking it and a lot disliking it, both groups can be big and the former make it make a lot of money regardless of the negativity of the latter. The prequels also did still make a lot of money both in theaters and home video despite many resenting them while their long-term legacy is still pretty disputed (and I think the fervor of the negativity has gradually decreased).

There probably weren't more people who disliked TLJ rather than liked it in that a lot of viewers (maybe the plurality) like most movies they see or at least think they're OK, the groups who like it and think it's OK are in most cases collectively the majority.

The perception that something is widely despised can alternately be that its fans are pretty un-vocal (although sometimes the fans are less vocal because they admit it has some flaws rather than being a big success).

 

[Professor Zoom]

In order for that to happen Disney would have to summon an "Order 66" on Star Wars fans; there's too many issues with the movie, especially when locked into an SJW era, for it to be considered the best of the Disney era films in a hypothetical years to come. This piece of sh*t of a movie is not fine wine. This just shows you haven't watched much Disney films from this era; Disney has produced a lot of quality films than a popcorn serial plant like The Last Jedi. Like the movie all you want, but lets keep the hokey, crystal ball predictions of a movie which was never designed for any substance, but to muddy the aura of the OT heroes just to make their new characters look better.

Nah. It's not a piece of shit movie.
And Disney has also produced a lot of terrible movies. The Nutcracker thing that just came out?
Without creating a list of all of the Disney films from this era, it's hard to say they made a lot of "quality" or a lot of "terrible."
More likely, they have made some great, some bad and many in-between.
But, then, that would ruin a hot take like, "piece of shit movie," wouldn't it?

 

[suarezguy]

Are fans ever truly happy though? They find more to nitpick than love these days.

This. As much as I appreciate the quick access to fan opinion, there is even more of a trend of voicing negative to positive.

A lot of the MCU movies mostly get As in fan ratings, that was also so for the first two Nolan Batman films and two or three of the Craig Bond films and I think most new Disney animated films.

 

[suarezguy]

Not really. I love SW but I can't help now but watch ANH with a very different eye than I did back then. It was a sensation and rightly so, but it wouldn't be now.

It broke a lot of new ground in terms of what was shown on screen but frankly the story telling was limited and based in archetypes as old as storytelling itself and those visuals and the epic scope wouldn't hold up as visionary in the modern age. It would be viewed as slow, derivative and relying on the charisma of the performers to really drive the characterisation.

Most movies, especially the highly popular ones, still are based on old archetypes and heavily rely on the charisma of the performers.

 

[Spot261]

Most movies, especially the highly popular ones, still are based on old archetypes and heavily rely on the charisma of the performers.

Of course, that was largely my point. Most movies aren't held up as being game changing classics as a result.

 

[suarezguy]

Fair point but a lot of them are still very enjoyed and pretty loved and a few are even considered to be New Classics.

If the first Star Wars had been released in 1999 or 2008 it would probably be considered as good as or better than the first Pirates of the Caribbean and most Harry Potter films, not quite as good as Lord of the Rings but maybe close.

 

[fireproof78]

Yes, maybe there's a little truth to the points listed above, but they can't completely blot out the idea that lots of people don't like this movie because it isn't a great movie.

I agree that there are a wide variety of reasons to not like the movie, but, unfortunately, the sources you listed above also contribute to a lot of misinformation too. And, I think that's my personal struggle with the supposed "hate" that dominates this film's discussion. It isn't that people like it or dislike it. It's that individuals, on both sides, must be proven right in their assertions that this film is "a piece of shit designed to ruin the OT" or that "this is the best Star Wars film EVAH!"

The truth, I suspect, is somewhere in the middle, a balance if you will.

Now, I won't regale you with my own predictions and "whoa is me"isms regarding the future of the franchise.I think that if people genuinely believe this is a terrible film then not a single thing will change their mind, and same with the otherside. But, to me, if there is a genuine discussion, and exchange of ideas, then I think it is reasonable to question the sources, including Youtube, and the trends that drive videos. Because I listen to and read a lot of those videos and posts around the web and while I can appreciate the opinions I think they can proceed from a premise that can only lead to a certain conclusion.

I think that videos, like the one I linked to, can demonstrate how the film fits in to the overall SW saga and demonstrates that TLJ can fit in to the saga, regardless of personal opinions regarding Rian Johnson, Kathleen Kennedy, Disney or LFL.

 

[Skipper]

Considering that that word "hated" can have multiple meanings,

• If we use it as synonymous of "disliked", well, I suppose that there are people who disliked it, like every other piece of fiction created since the dawn of the humanity. Honestly, I don't see any reason (unless one is a Hollywood producer) to know how many they are exactly. I can imagine better pastimes then researching the exact number of people who didn't like something I liked, because, well, I'm not sure how this can enrich myself...
• If we intend the people who feel pure, unadulterated hatred for it (and these people, God saves us, do exist), I do no have any intention to know who they are and what are their opinions, because, well, they have serious issues and do make me very afraid. Feeling something similar for a movie with space wizard is simply not sane. The only people who should be interested in this should be therapists who want to corner the rabid fans' market.

 

[fireproof78]

The only people who should be interested in this should be therapists who want to corner the rabid fans' market.

I work in mental health and that sounds like a lot of work O_o

 

[Smellmet]

I don't hate the movie. I just don't care for it. There's parts of it I find to be almost unwatchable, but there's parts of a lot SW movies that are too, bar ANH, ESB, RO and maybe solo and TFA, there's just more of them in TLJ in my view. One of them has to come bottom of my rankings. For a long time it was TPM. Hell, at one point it was ROTJ. Things change over time.

They may make a better one than the 1977 original or it's sequel one day but I doubt it. They could easily make a worse one than TLJ. It still has some merit as a piece of entertainment.

I won't slate anyone who likes it either. I'll still watch it from time to time as part of the saga. I love Star wars.

What do I know though. Nemesis is one of my favourite trek movies.

 

[Spot261]

Fair point but a lot of them are still very enjoyed and pretty loved and a few are even considered to be New Classics.

If the first Star Wars had been released in 1999 or 2008 it would probably be considered as good as or better than the first Pirates of the Caribbean and most Harry Potter films, not quite as good as Lord of the Rings but maybe close.

Oh absolutely, but thy all bring something else to the table, they aren't just genre movies. That's what ANH did at the time, it broke new ground outside of those archetypes - which arguably Harry Potter did in it's own way. LOTR is a bit of an exception but what it did was faithfully recreate the spirit of the source material in incredibly beautiful ways and exceeded even the most optimistic expectations in that regard.