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The Last Jedi - Actually Widely Hated?

crookeddy said:
Back to the Future 2 did just fine as a standalone movie. Lord of the rings movies were arbitrarily split.
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Yes, they were arbitrarily split-based upon events in the book and their natural breaks and what fit and what didn't.

Oh, wait, no, that's actually a planned split. I don't agree that it is a issue for movies to not stand on their own. Especially not with a trilogy.

To each their own.
 
crookeddy said:
Back to the Future 2 did just fine as a standalone movie.
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BTTF2 absolutely relies upon the audience’s knowledge of the first film in order for it to work. And even thirty years ago seeing it in the theater at age 9, I was underwhelmed. It is NOT a standalone movie.
 
BTTF2 also ends on a note that's incredibly unsatisfying if there's no follow-up.

No, I don't think it does just fine as a standalone film.
 
It’s just boring. Haven’t had any inclination to see it again which has never happened before with the other movies.
 
But not AotC?

Only asking because IMO each one is better than the one before, though all three are...significantly...flawed.
 
DonIago said:
But not AotC?

Only asking because IMO each one is better than the one before, though all three are...significantly...flawed.
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For some reason AOTC is a lot more fun for me to rewatch than the other two. I certainly don't want to revisit it often but if I were to pick them to rewatch, the OT, then the ST, then AOTC, TPM and ROTS.

It's reverse for many but that's how I feel.
 
thribs said:
It’s just boring. Haven’t had any inclination to see it again which has never happened before with the other movies.
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That's one of my main problems with it. It's just not very exciting or entertaining for large parts in my view. The middle section of the film is just a bloody drag - the pacing is absolutely dreadful. I have issues with the film that other people regularly list - space Leia being chief among them, Snoke going out like a punk, the slow chase, the boring casino sequence, lack of a proper lightsaber duel, some of the humour, our heroes just happening to see an abandoned rebel base out of the window of the ship they're on, the list goes on. Some of these things were genuinely eye rolling stuff at the cinema. I haven't got a list of complaints this long against any other SW movie, even TPM. I'm not a hater, I love Star Wars, I thought TFA was OK if a little derivative, RO I thought was absolutely amazing and challenges ANH/ESB in my opinion, Solo was a whole lot of fun too but not quite as good - but this movie is just riddled with too many issues that spoiled my enjoyment of it.

I've since purchased the blu-ray and watched it a further three times - I thought the battle at the beginning was pretty decent, some of the visuals and humour was ok, and I actually didn't mind what they did with Luke - would I have rather seen him kick some ass? Of course, but what they did at the end was at least an attempt at something different, but they're the only positives for me. I get that Johnson was trying to subvert expectations - and that's to be applauded, but I just think it misfired on so many levels as a piece of entertainment. I think as a viewing experience it's a badly paced, overlong, bloated mess with the odd worthy scene in it.

Bottom of the pile for me, and it hurts to say it. I'll still be in the queue on opening night for episode 9 though, which hopefully as others have said will provide more context for this film.
 
BillJ said:
When you're a fan of a franchise, there is always going to be something at the bottom of the pile. Just the law of averages at work.
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Yeah I just didn't expect one of these new films to unseat TPM (which I still quite like by the way) by such a big margin.
 
Maybe this is a result of "complaint fatigue", but whenever I hear people cite things like Canto Bight, Snoke's death, or the slow-burn Imperial chase as being problems with the film, I immediately stop listening because it makes me question whether or not they actually didn't like those elements of the film or if they're just being "parrots", particularly since there are many, many others who didn't find those things problematic at all.

If those elements are genuinely problematic for you, explain why.
 
DigificWriter said:
Maybe this is a result of "complaint fatigue", but whenever I hear people cite things like Canto Bight, Snoke's death, or the slow-burn Imperial chase as being problems with the film, I immediately stop listening because it makes me question whether or not they actually didn't like those elements of the film or if they're just being "parrots", particularly since there are many, many others who didn't find those things problematic at all.

If those elements are genuinely problematic for you, explain why.
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Ok I guess I'll bite..

Canto Blight I found to be pretty dull and pointless and didn't really add anything to the film, which I found was already dragging in it's middle act by this point.

Snoke was built up to be the big bad of this trilogy with Force powers beyond even the likes of Palpatine, yet couldn't tell what Kylo was doing and went out like a punk. It was a waste of who was shaping up to be a decent villain, with just Kylo left as the main antagonist of this trilogy (for now) which I think is pretty weak.

The chase could have been dealt with by some the fleet light speeding ahead of them and surrounding them. It was poorly conceived, paced and just wasn't dramatic at all.

These things (amongst quite a few others) just dragged the film down and sucked my enjoyment out of it. I just didn't particularly enjoy it. Nothing more, nothing less. You insinuation that I'm being a 'parrot' is just plain insulting. I thought I was being more than fair in my critique, and like I said I've even purchased the blu-ray and rewatched several times to re-appraise it, I was even hoping to change my own mind on it, so please don't mistake me for your average social media whiner bleating on about how 'Star Wars is dead' or some other unfounded untrue bullshit. Like I said, I applaud Rian Johnson for trying to mix things up, I really do, I just think the execution was lacking. I found large parts of this movie to be either eye rollingly stupid, or just flat out boring, which is something I thought I'd never say about any Star Wars movie.

If other people didn't mind these scenes, or the movie in general, then great, more power to them. I didn't. I like all three prequel movies more than this one, but I totally get why a lot of people don't like those movies without resorting to sly digs because I disagree with them. I accept my view as entirely subjective. If everyone liked the same stuff the world would be a pretty fucking boring place wouldn't it?
 
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BillJ said:
When you're a fan of a franchise, there is always going to be something at the bottom of the pile. Just the law of averages at work.
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And for me that is Rogue One. I know people love it. But not only does it completely throw out one of my favorite tie ins (the ANH radio drama), it, in my opinion, is nothing more than fanwank. Too many cameos and fannish moments. A movie that suffers pretty poorly from reshoots when you look at it beyond the “kewl” factor. Great action scenes, some of the best in all the Star Wars movies but that’s really about all, again, in my opinion, that it has going for it. But to each his own.
 
Campe98 said:
And for me that is Rogue One. I know people love it. But not only does it completely throw out one of my favorite tie ins (the ANH radio drama), it, in my opinion, is nothing more than fanwank. Too many cameos and fannish moments. A movie that suffers pretty poorly from reshoots when you look at it beyond the “kewl” factor. Great action scenes, some of the best in all the Star Wars movies but that’s really about all, again, in my opinion, that it has going for it. But to each his own.
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RO occupies 3rd slot behind ANH and ESB for me. The only cameo I hated were the two dudes out of the Cantina in ANH, which I thought was unnecessary. I can totally see why you'd call it fanwank - it's just happens to be the most glorious piece of fanwank in cinema, and I love it.
 
Smellmet said:
it's just happens to be the most glorious piece of fanwank in cinema, and I love it.
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Lol... again, to each his own! Totally respect your opinion, even if I don’t agree with it. I think, seeing the movie for the first time, I was okay with it until Artoo and Threepio (even if the cantina guys made me roll my eyes and then some). But then they did the Red and Gold leader thing which I even admit is very cool and makes a ton of sense.

Then there was the end Vader scene. No thank you. In my opinion, it really just doesn’t jibe with the start of ANH. Like, at all. It seemed to be there just for that “kewl” moment.
 
Campe98 said:
Then there was the end Vader scene. No thank you. In my opinion, it really just doesn’t jibe with the start of ANH. Like, at all. It seemed to be there just for that “kewl” moment.
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Again, I can see how people don't care for that scene. I love it though. Maybe he moves a little too quickly from what you see in his duel with Kenobi in ANH but I still think it's a gripping, thrilling scene.
 
Campe98 said:
And for me that is Rogue One. I know people love it. But not only does it completely throw out one of my favorite tie ins (the ANH radio drama), it, in my opinion, is nothing more than fanwank. Too many cameos and fannish moments. A movie that suffers pretty poorly from reshoots when you look at it beyond the “kewl” factor. Great action scenes, some of the best in all the Star Wars movies but that’s really about all, again, in my opinion, that it has going for it. But to each his own.
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Yeah. I wasn't impressed at all by Rogue One. Some of the same issues as Discovery, constantly elbowing you in the proverbial ribs and going "SEE! WE'RE STAR WARS!!!"

It just throws me completely out of the story.
 
I love RO, i have seen it twice in the cinema and once on Netflix, i love the red/gold leader cameo and Vader fighting the rebels. And the hammerhead ships looks great!
I really wish they would make a KOTOR movie
 
Smellmet said:
Ok I guess I'll bite..

Canto Blight I found to be pretty dull and pointless and didn't really add anything to the film, which I found was already dragging in it's middle act by this point.
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I don't think you've explained this sufficiently enough, and would like more context in order to better understand your issues with that part of the film.

Snoke was built up to be the big bad of this trilogy with Force powers beyond even the likes of Palpatine, yet couldn't tell what Kylo was doing and went out like a punk. It was a waste of who was shaping up to be a decent villain, with just Kylo left as the main antagonist of this trilogy (for now) which I think is pretty weak.
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This is an issue of perception, not content.

The chase could have been dealt with by some the fleet light speeding ahead of them and surrounding them.
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I'm not sure you understood the point of that whole thing.

Hux didn't want to simply destroy the Resistance; he wanted to lord the First Order's superiority over them and destroy them slowly and in humiliating fashion.
 
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