The Last Jedi - Actually Widely Hated?

Discussion in 'Star Wars' started by crookeddy, Jan 9, 2019.

  1. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    Doesn't change the fact that I will be respectful to the person. Calling it wishful thinking isn't couching it. It's noting that people have valid opinions on this matter, even if there is ignorance. You're not going to change that by running around and
    He didn't have to but it worked in the story. I don't have to like it, but that doesn't change how it worked inside the story.

    Also, Luke didn't die in Rogue One ;)
    And this is an excellent example of different points of view. I think the lightsaber battles in Episode 3 are among the worst in the series, and Anakin's turn made little sense.

    Agree to disagree :D
     
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  2. Kirk Prime

    Kirk Prime Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Then your circle isn't that wide or you have a statistically rare set of people.
    In fairness--the first four Star Trek movies were blockbusters. Most of the Star Trek original movies grossed in the top 10 of the year they were released. Abrams made a financially successful Star Trek movie, in part due to the use of the original characters, who hadn't been seen in quite some time. Anyone not named Berman or Braga could have pulled that off with those characters.

    I do think Abrams has some talent--Lost was terrific overall even if some people hated the end. I don't think he made a good Star Trek movie in 3 tries, and I don't feel his heart was in the franchise. You don't delay a Star Trek movie for a year to make Cloverfield for example.

    But Abrams' desire for secrecy absolutely hurts marketing. He doesn't seem to understand that some plot details are not spoilers.

    Khan is in the movie--not a spoiler.
    Spock dies at the end of Star Trek II--that's a spoiler.

    I think Abrams had the novelty in ST09, but not the heart of the franchise, which I think is one reason STID didn't do nearly as well. You can't coast and assume people will just show up by divine right. Maybe TLJ is suffering the same problem.


    You are suggesting that the average viewer is completely ignorant of Star Trek, which simply isn't true. Star Trek is one of the most widely known franchises in the world, especially in the US. TWOK is STILL the standard for great Star Trek movies, and Khan was the memorable character because of that movie. That movie is a part of our culture, and the idea that not advertising Khan was good is like saying that you are bringing the Joker into a Batman movie and not telling anyone.

    The worst part is that they took it to such an extreme that they lied about it, saying flat out that Cumberbatch wasn't Khan. That brought bad will on the movie because it was so obvious. Now the ignorant of the franchise would know Khan, but they would NOT know that Khan actually isn't the Joker at all. He was just the most memorable movie villain.

    Khan was only used because of recognition. It makes no sense to use him otherwise. Hell, we all saw that movie and Cumberbatch, while a very good character, was really nothing like Khan, and had he continued to be John Harrison, enhanced guy or alien, the movie doesn't miss a beat. So of course they used Khan because of name recognition, and if you do that to try to up your box office--advertise the guy.

    It was a colossal screw up because Abrams is paranoid about spoilers. To get back on topic, he will need to do better in Episode IX because of the hatred of TLJ.

    I think this thread isn't so much about whether TLJ was good or not--it's about whether the hatred is real--and it absolutely is. The smart thing to do is address it and acknowledge it.
     
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  3. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    Yes, it is real. No, I don't believe it represents the majority of the audience. Not by a long shot.
    It's funny because Abrams acknowledges that as a mistake. It's like he might have learned from his mistakes or something because he is a professional and good at his job.

    I know, I was surprised as any one else ;)

    But, if I were to trust anyone with Episode IX it would be Abrams to handle and field the hatred. He certainly has already dealt with it before.
     
  4. HugeLobes

    HugeLobes Captain Captain

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    No, I'm suggesting they're either completely ignorant of Khan or don't care about him. Khan is no Joker. Star Trek fans know who here is. To the average moviegoer, Khan is either just a name or someone unknown. Ask 100 people in the street and way more would know about the Joker than Khan.

    Advertising Khan could have backfired because the average moviegoer wouldn't have wanted someone they don't already know about. That was one of the main reasons for changing the entire timeline.

    Not disagreeing, but only for recognition among fans. Star Trek fans were not the main audience for that movie.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
  5. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

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    The most famous think about Khan is a meme ... that isn't actually him.
     
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  6. HugeLobes

    HugeLobes Captain Captain

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    Can't I just agree?
     
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  7. Relayer1

    Relayer1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Personal view only I realise, but The Force Awakens crushed my hopes for the new trilogy. I really didn't like it.

    Despite it having some issues, I loved The Last Jedi. Sadly, I have very little faith in JJ 's ability to follow it and bring the trilogy to a satisfactory conclusion.
     
  8. BillJ

    BillJ History's Greatest Monster Premium Member

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    I like The Force Awakens, but I found The Last Jedi is a better movie as it moves the story forward in a more satisfying way.
     
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  9. HugeLobes

    HugeLobes Captain Captain

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    I feel like TFA took the safest, easier course and succeeded, while TLJ took a riskier, more original approach and failed. Even though I think TLJ is worse than TFA, I kinda like it more.
     
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  10. BillJ

    BillJ History's Greatest Monster Premium Member

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    If you don't take risks, you take the risk of the product stagnating and failing. ;)
     
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  11. HugeLobes

    HugeLobes Captain Captain

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    Yes, but I think SW is currently in a bit of a conundrum. It's impossible to capture the magic of the OT without taking a few risks, but they're forced to put so much money into making each movie a blockbuster that they can't really do that, especially after TLJ.
     
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  12. BillJ

    BillJ History's Greatest Monster Premium Member

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    For good or ill, I don't think Abrams would've agreed to direct Episode IX if he isn't getting to tell the story he wants to tell.
     
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  13. USS Firefly

    USS Firefly Commodore Commodore

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    Haha i don't go with her because I don't like the new Star Wars movies.
    Because we have two little childeren and don't have much time, we only go two times a year to the movies together.

    The first is the new Avengers movie and the second propably the new Terminator.
    My wife have one friend who like the Star Wars movies so they go together. :)
     
  14. BillJ

    BillJ History's Greatest Monster Premium Member

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    Man, if I had a nickel for every time I've went to a movie with my wife that I knew I wouldn't like over the last twenty-five years... I'd have a lot of nickels.

    It is just more about spending time together.
     
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  15. Campe

    Campe Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Very important.
     
  16. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    It's impossible to recapture the magic-period. They need to focus on making new magic.
    Exactly. I don't care for some of the things my wife watches but I'll take time together.
     
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  17. crookeddy

    crookeddy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Let's not get into judging other people's family life...
     
  18. HugeLobes

    HugeLobes Captain Captain

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    But I think that’s the problem. They need to make new magic, but they also need to make sure every movie is a smash hit. They’re in the position of having to take risks and go for something safe at the same time.
     
  19. Campe

    Campe Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Let’s not misinterpret someone voicing their personal priorities with judging people.
     
  20. USS Firefly

    USS Firefly Commodore Commodore

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    What stupid of me!
    I actually mean the opposite of what i wrote.
    I meant that because we don't have much time to go to the movies we only go to movie we both love, like the Avengers movie.