The Last Jedi - Actually Widely Hated?

Discussion in 'Star Wars' started by crookeddy, Jan 9, 2019.

  1. crookeddy

    crookeddy Commodore Commodore

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    If you go into a Star Wars movie looking for a classic, and taking it out of it's original context (nobody's ever seen effects like the ones in ANH when it came out) I can see it being disappointing.
     
  2. Campe98

    Campe98 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think I said as much at some point in this thread.

    Ah, YouTube... now there’s a credible source of any information...

    I’m sorry but YouTube, while entertaining, is full of sensationalists, both in those creating the content and those commenting. It’s worse than Facebook. You want to talk about shades of gray? They don’t exist in those settings. It, like our culture, trying to figure out this internet thing and how our politics are both into tribalism, even down to our entertainment. So, I’m sorry, but when you use YouTube as a suggestion of a barometer for anything? Your argument loses credibility in my mind.

    Nothing personal, Lobes. Just really tired of seeing YouTube being used as a credible source for anything.
     
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  3. HugeLobes

    HugeLobes Captain Captain

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    I don't mean people making or watching 80 minute YouTube videos either. I guess the difference might be better people who are fans and people who are part of the fandom, if that make sense?

    Even so, it's still not really those viewers that make films a smash hit. Look at the Avengers movies. There are plenty of fans of that franchise, but most of the people who see those movies are just average moviegoers.
     
  4. Campe98

    Campe98 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Are fans ever truly happy though? They find more to nitpick than love these days.
     
  5. HugeLobes

    HugeLobes Captain Captain

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    I'm not saying YouTube is hugely credible, but it is something. There are a few people making videos, then many more commenting, and then many more again are reacting to those comments.
     
  6. HugeLobes

    HugeLobes Captain Captain

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    Yes people nitpick more thanks to internet and fandom culture, but they're also happier than ever to embrace things.
     
  7. crookeddy

    crookeddy Commodore Commodore

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    Probably always the case, but now we have access to their opinions.
     
  8. Campe98

    Campe98 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    But are they the same ones doing it over and over and over again? There could be 2,000 people out there who hate something but if they’re commenting and reacting to the same videos, you still only have 2,000 people.

    I’m not even going to get into duals and bot farms.
     
  9. HugeLobes

    HugeLobes Captain Captain

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    Could be. Or maybe what you're seeing it just what you're seeing. Again, I'm not saying YouTube comments are some infallible measure, but they don't mean nothing.
     
  10. Campe98

    Campe98 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    We could go about this all day. The point is: Yes. TLJ is divisive. No one is arguing that point. However, it’s difficult to suggest for certain whether or not the “overwhelming hate” is from a small minority or not. I think that relates to a certain point of view.

    I think we all can agree on that.
     
  11. crookeddy

    crookeddy Commodore Commodore

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    Perhaps the box office of episode 9 will help us come to a conclusion.
     
  12. Campe98

    Campe98 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Not likely. If it’s a cent less than TLJ, the haters will suggest it’s an abject failure.
     
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  13. HugeLobes

    HugeLobes Captain Captain

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    And if it's a cent over the fans will call it a momentous success? Personally, I think SW is only going to become less bankable. You can only put so much water in your beer.
     
  14. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    This. As much as I appreciate the quick access to fan opinion, there is even more of a trend of voicing negative to positive. And there is a higher reaction to negative vs. positive. This is why I don't believe that TLJ is as widely negative regarded as the Internet would portray it. Those who liked it liked it and felt little need to comment as much as those hated it or found it lacking.

    No matter the money it makes there are segments that will declare it a failure, call for Kennedy's resignation, and Abrams firing-preferably from a cannon.
     
  15. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The bolded part of your post is inaccurate and can be proven to be so with factual numbers and statements.
     
  16. BillJ

    BillJ History’s Greatest Monster Premium Member

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    I liked it, and since I paid for my ticket, that's all that really matters in the grand scheme of things. People are too invested in what others think.
     
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  17. Spot261

    Spot261 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    They also have a fan base with a long and documented history of being predisposed to disliking anything new which can never live up to their expectations or their childhood memories.

    Of course SW is coasting on reputation in terms of the box office, but it's also being hindered by that reputation in terms of commentary and social media has very much changed the playing field in the intervening years.
     
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  18. Campe98

    Campe98 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think the fans have been far more willing to admit the faults of TLJ than those who disliked it are willing to admit any good points. No film is perfect. But your friends on YouTube? How many of them praise Mark Hamill for an unquestionably wonderful performance in Ep8? Not very many.

    I also will not deny the fact that doing a Star Wars film every year was a mistake on Disney’s part financially. I don’t believe Ep9 will do as well as TLJ but I believe it will do far better than Solo.
     
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  19. Campe98

    Campe98 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Then prove it please. And if you tell me to “Google it” I’ll scream.
     
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  20. mos6507

    mos6507 Commodore Commodore

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    Yep. When Queen sang "And I don't like Star Wars" in Bicycle Race it was a shocking lyric at the time because everyone (except some critics) loved it. The same isn't true of The Last Jedi, not by a mile.

    Star Wars has always been sort of a mess (think Obi Wan "from a certain point of view" and Leia as a prospective love interest for Luke and then a sister retconning) but the sequel trilogy feels like it's really been improvised. There is a lack of cohesion and direction. Just one example is Rey's parentage. I hear rumors that JJ will shoehorn back in some sort of special lineage. If you nullify entire swaths of Last Jedi subversion it effectively renders the film itself pointless. So you please the fans who didn't want the subversion, but you compromise the integrity of the piece as a unified whole. There are also all these dangling plot threads. Where did Luke's old saber come from? Where did Snoke come from? But filling in plot-holes by itself isn't that entertaining. How can the missing information be integral to the plot? Too much of Episode IX feels like its reason to exist is merely to patch things up. The burden to fix things wouldn't be there had the other two films (Last Jedi in particular) served its purpose. The original Episode IX story that Colin Trevorrow was working on sounded more consistent with Force Awakens but Last Jedi made that impossible. Really the point at which the story veered off was Last Jedi. It veered off so much that it's easier to treat the broom-boy scene as the natural endpoint of all Star Wars movies than it is to tack on a 3rd film that dovetails to it.